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THOMAS Vs ACC DISMISSED.

#1 User is offline   Srgt.Shultz 

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:23 PM

http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/legal/distr...sions/index.htm

Its a big 1. to large to post on here. 95 pages.

3rd 1 down.

makes for some very interesting reading. ;)
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#2 User is offline   neddy 

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:54 PM

 Srgt.Shultz, on May 5 2010, 10:23 PM, said:

http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/legal/distr...sions/index.htm

Its a big 1. to large to post on here. 95 pages.

3rd 1 down.

makes for some very interesting reading. ;)

Better quality PDF found here http://www.acc.co.nz/search-results/index....xt=Thomas+v+ACC

The current relevant one seems to be judgement 1, District Court Decision 61/2010 - Thomas v ACC a 4.251M download.
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#3 User is offline   Moeroa 

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 04:49 AM

 neddy, on May 6 2010, 12:54 AM, said:

Better quality PDF found here http://www.acc.co.nz/search-results/index....xt=Thomas+v+ACC

The current relevant one seems to be judgement 1, District Court Decision 61/2010 - Thomas v ACC a 4.251M download.


Gob smacked. How the other half lives. http://www.ipsofactoj.com/international/20...2003(2)-010.htm

Here's me, $305 a week (after tax, student loan and computer repayments), trotting off to WINZ for top-up benefits. I can't afford the rent. Considering moving to the cheap-side of South Auckland but rent is more than my income. No money to survive on compo, much less set up business operations, rent offices and so forth.

I don't know how I'm gonna survive week to week. No overseas hols in that equation. $305 a week and couldn't pay the bloody rent for me and my kids. I'm struggling on ACC but thought I was RICHER than the doleys and benos around here, getting what I do but always wondering why I can't stretch the money very far.

I just can't believe people get so much on ACC. Sickness Benefit is $194 a week.
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#4 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 08:31 AM

Moe

People get paid so much from ACC because it is 80% of their wage when they were working.

Think what our income would have been now if some of us were allowed to carry on working as we had been doing for years. My life would have been set thats for sure. And I worked hard.

Thomo senario is not usual though. Not many people go to that extreme to try and get extra dough in their pocket. 15 companies as well as ACC. A usual person only needs one company for that.

I have only got to page 20 and it is more than obvious what the JUdge thought of Thomo as a character and a witness.He may stop dicking the courts around now that he has been charged with costs.

Amagine what the costs will be, with all those witness, brought forward at his bequest.

Someone was asking the other day, who is Alan Thomos??? Now they know. Judge Barber has made a good background and 95 page image of the Thomos character.

Mini
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#5 User is offline   Moeroa 

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:07 PM

How can someone have so much ERC they can afford to set up 14 or 15 companies? The judge seemed to accept the coys were generating earnings (let alone the overseas trips) therefore ERC was paid wrongfully. I understood if a claimant worked in a paid or non-paid capacity ACC had to be informed? I had to tell ACC about my voluntary work with the Refuge. I never got paid but was fed and quartered for over-nighting there and given petrol vouchers, to get to the house. Vouchers weren't income but I still had to tell ACC about any work I did.

I was feeling guilty that I couldn't manage on that while at the same time the doleys and other benos coped. I never told anyone around here how much I get, because they'd tell me off for not making do. My kids lived with their father so I had someone say I shouldn't moan because this is what entire families have to live on and asked what did I do with all that much money every week. Also a fellow classmate from uni wasn't working at all when she was doing her master's degree, so when a drunk driver ploughed into her car, she ended up paraplegic. ACC provided attendant care, equipment and a car but doesn't give her any ERC. I get ERC only because I'd HAD to work part time throughout my studies to survive.

I am shocked how someone can live the high life off of the taxpayer when the rest of us struggle to live week to week (even when we were working and paying full taxes). If I didn't get the petrol vouchers to go to Refuge I'd have no petrol to get to the doctor, let alone go on trips to where was it, Canada, United States, China. Business trips for a business that wasn't paying him but paid for the airfares? Businesses that used up his ERC for premises rental, how did the businesses that had their rent paid by ERC afford those expensive travel? I couldn't damn well get 20 miles down the road to my doctor but for the Refuge.

But yes Mini if I was still able to work, even at my night job, I'd be getting $26+ an hour. I could do a 12-hour stint and get the same income I have to get by on for an entire week. If only ACC had done their job of rehabbing us so we could still be productive members of the workforce instead of being objects of scorn ("bludgers") and embarrassments that have to be harass off. Look at yourself; your entire life is tied up doing court stuff just to receive your entitlements. It's a full time job already so on top of your injuries you don't actually have a full life, ACC's consumed that. I have kids so I can't spend my entire time living and breathing ACC's corruption and deceptions.

How is AT going to pay those costs from a WINZ benefit? He won't be able to unless he forfeits his assets, surely? The house, car, furnishings, office and work equipment (mentioned in that report) will have to be sold to defray those costs, surely? (I'm shocked the taxpayer funds any of it, I don't have that - just an old car and discarded furniture)
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#6 User is offline   Srgt.Shultz 

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 12:31 AM

It would be of interest to know what the total cost of this waste of
time, effort, and tax and levy payers money is.

Appealing this would not be a wise move either.
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#7 User is offline   ACCSUX notcovered 

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 07:16 AM

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#8 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 11:35 AM

Well I haven't read it all or in my case listened to it all but I like how the ACC brough up that a person in a sling could operate the CAD programme. If Alan was so good Alan would be going for the loss of earnings due to the incapacity.

As in the above Allan should have asked the question Could the person with an arm in a sling opperate the programme as efficent as a person with out the disibility?

You will notice that ACC has not once in the whole decision claim that Allan has no loss of earnings due to his incapacity.
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#9 User is offline   neddy 

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 10:16 PM

 doppelganger, on May 7 2010, 11:35 AM, said:

Well I haven't read it all or in my case listened to it all but I like how the ACC brough up that a person in a sling could operate the CAD programme. If Alan was so good Alan would be going for the loss of earnings due to the incapacity.

As in the above Allan should have asked the question Could the person with an arm in a sling opperate the programme as efficent as a person with out the disibility?

You will notice that ACC has not once in the whole decision claim that Allan has no loss of earnings due to his incapacity.


I used to use AutoCad to draw scale plans for houses/buildings commercial premises etc and to design printed circuit boards for fun.

I shattered my scaphoid bone in my dominant hand and had a bone graft and was in plaster for 7mths then in a steel wristbrace for a number of years.

I was still able to use a PC for word processing, databases ans spreadsheets plus continue my design work.

The mouse movements take little use of the wrist and using the tools one can draw all imaginable shapes and insert preset objects into the design.

I also exprimented with the left hand until I discovered an ergonomic upright mouse made by 3M which improved things for me.

Neccessity is the mother of all inventions, and, if one is pushed outside their comfort zone a bit, one can always Adopt, Adapt and Improve as the Round Table motto goes.

I'm sure many on this board will be able to tell of different adaptations to tasks and using things as circumstances permit and the neccessity to live take over.
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#10 User is offline   Moeroa 

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 11:08 PM

"Kiwi" understatement, tall poppy syndrome or the kiwi knocking machine could be why we didn't get so much out of ACC. Perhaps we should all develop the same highly developed sense of entitlement and get ALL we can from ACC however means possible. After all in the end they're the ones who're robbing the lot of us. Where did honesty get us all when dealing with the ACC?

Alan I take what I said earlier all back - I was in shock. Please forgive me. Tell us how you did it so we can too. I'm sick and tired of being honest, it's not got me very far now has it. $305 a @#$%^& week... I mean, really?!?
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#11 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 12:56 PM

 neddy, on May 7 2010, 10:16 PM, said:

I used to use AutoCad to draw scale plans for houses/buildings commercial premises etc and to design printed circuit boards for fun.

I shattered my scaphoid bone in my dominant hand and had a bone graft and was in plaster for 7mths then in a steel wristbrace for a number of years.

I was still able to use a PC for word processing, databases ans spreadsheets plus continue my design work.

The mouse movements take little use of the wrist and using the tools one can draw all imaginable shapes and insert preset objects into the design.

I also exprimented with the left hand until I discovered an ergonomic upright mouse made by 3M which improved things for me.

Neccessity is the mother of all inventions, and, if one is pushed outside their comfort zone a bit, one can always Adopt, Adapt and Improve as the Round Table motto goes.

I'm sure many on this board will be able to tell of different adaptations to tasks and using things as circumstances permit and the neccessity to live take over.



just so people can try CAD drawing here is an engineering programme for free. (one that Alan may be using in 1996)http://www.cadvance.com/65form.htm Try it and have a go. Better than drawing board and pencil.
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#12 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 09:14 PM

Moe

Mr Thomas cannot tell you how he did it as he got caught and jailed, thats the point.

Mini
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#13 User is offline   DARRELLGEMMA 

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  Posted 10 May 2010 - 05:55 PM

 MINI, on May 8 2010, 10:14 PM, said:

Moe

Mr Thomas cannot tell you how he did it as he got caught and jailed, thats the point.

Mini

Hi Mini it is Darrell here. I am astonished by Alan's behaviour. He got caught out big time. I have only just read the decision & i am amazed at how a person like Mr Thomas can abuse our acc system by getting weekly compensation from the taxpayer. Perhaps acc should all his companies into liquidation & get all the money back that way. As i said i am astonished by his illegal actions. Acc are there to pay those who have been injured & all that not get defrauded. UNBELIEVABLY STUPID ON ALAN'S BEHALF.
Kind Regards
Darrell Pearce
P.S. Not unusual for me to speak out on a criminal matter like this but i had to have my five cents worth.
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#14 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 07:51 PM

Hey Darryl

People are seeing the light at long last.

Good on you, having your say.

I too get sick of people ripping the system off, and we have to fight so dam hard for our rights.

Mini
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#15 User is offline   Moeroa 

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 08:38 PM

 MINI, on May 8 2010, 10:14 PM, said:

Moe

Mr Thomas cannot tell you how he did it as he got caught and jailed, thats the point.

Mini


Mini there are low-income folks around here that winter over in jail for committing survival crime. That way they get their fines wiped and families taken care of.
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#16 User is offline   Srgt.Shultz 

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 09:00 PM

MOE...

I hear you...
and I agree...
I have seen so much of this...
here in the north...related to ACC.
that my heart bleeds...

GRRRRRRRRRR !.
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#17 User is offline   Moeroa 

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 09:41 PM

 Srgt.Shultz, on May 10 2010, 10:00 PM, said:

MOE...

I hear you...
and I agree...
I have seen so much of this...
here in the north...related to ACC.
that my heart bleeds...

GRRRRRRRRRR !.


My mum's from Kaikohe so you're right, it's fairly entrenched. Doubt folks on here understand what it's like. Fact is, there's NO work & the jobs the locals do get are seasonal, short term casual and usually (apart from forestry etc) min-waged. There isn't enough to go around. Oh and many work in dangerous occupations with higher injury rates. ACC assesses income on their whole year's earnings so their compo can be bugger all. So they go and get more casual jobs then get their compo cut or done for fraud.

That makes some around here want to do what Alan did, to make it all worth while. Why go to jail for stuff all?
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#18 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 09:41 AM

Moe

If the people you are talking about had Alans nouse, they wouldnt be seen dead out of their designer suits hanging from the branches of a tree. The only thing dangerous about Alan trying to make more money was himself. He thought he was more clever than the ACC.

In the 'old' days we had to move from small towns to get work.

Your people up there on low wages can get their ACC then get it topped up with, disability WINZ and accommodation supplement. I think it is a matter of knowing what you are entitled too and then go get it. Some people are just not getting the information they need.

Maybe Whanau Ora will help in this direction. Not that Maori are the only ones hard up.

Also I noticed one on WINZ for two years, myself, had to keep a veggie garden, even though it killed every muscle in my body, everytime I tried to weed it. It was a nightmare, but one had to eat something. Meat consisted of 1001 different ways to do sausages and mince.

Yep have been there more than once, but the nice thing about having many hands around is they can help with the gardening etc. Am looking for handiman to build me raised gardens, then I will try again.

One thing about NZ is there is plenty of land to grow veggies and fruit, so in that sence is good.

I personally do not think crime is a very helpful way to help the family, it just builds into ones phycie the 'nannie state' will look after everything. Band together to build veggie gardens and help each other out.

It is amasing that everyone thinks, just because we have pulled ourselves up from the gutter, that we have never had to exist down there. It is much harder having to live on bugger all again, having pulled yourself up, just to get swatted down again. The idea is to never give up. Make them earn their money by being in their face 24/7.

The trouble with breaking the law, and then asking for your entitlements as well, is that you run the risk of getting caught out. That stops people from asking for entitlements. If you run a clean ship and ask for your entitlements and show how you cannot survive on what you are getting, you will find they will have to help you out. That is what the 'Special Benefit' and foodbanks are for.

People who break the law make it hard on the rest of us that get looked at sideways and up and down if we need anything special and extra. And that is what hurts me. We should not all be looked on as crooks, because some of us arent.

I am going to start cutting up my old clothes and make bigger models that will fit me. Some are expensive (while I was working on good money) and need altering, but at least they will see me through, with only having to buy the minimum.

There are ways to have fun with what you have and be happy, you just need to recognise what the limit is for your spending power. (Budget)

Winter is coming and already my gas and electricity bill has doubled from summer. It freaks me out, but I am trying to think of ways I can save money on those bills. One way would be to change my computer into the lounge so that I only have to heat the lounge and kitchen during the winter months. Not much room to set it up though, so would have to do some rearranging then need some handiman to move furniture. Another problem, have to wait until someone is ready to do it for me.

Where there is a will there is a way, and I will find it somehow. Because I wont give up until I do!!!

I hope your dear Mum is able and got enough to keep her going.

Good luck to all for the winter.

Mini
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#19 User is offline   Moeroa 

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 11:02 AM

Despite ALL the top-up supplement benefits, families still struggle. Rural inter-generational poverty means the entire community is struggling. It's not just temporary hard times, it's entrenched. WINZ gives no Special Benefit, only a Temporary Assistance or TAS and there is mandatory stand down period for benefits. So when families get irregular casual, seasonal or temp work, or ACC & then nothing, they simply don't have the rent money. The agencies can't budget on low paid, erratic income. ACC on a couple of months min wage isn't much when it's been assessed over a 12-month period when the injured worker's been on benefits between jobs. http://www.scoop.co....0106/S00271.htm

Make no mistake; survival crime is part of the cash-crop economy in the North. You're not a Northlander so wouldn't realise the extent of it or the reality of wintering over in jail so as to wipe those petty fines.

If Alan was able to live the high life, even for a couple of years, the good money he got made jail more worthwhile than piddly $750 fines for no WOF/Rego or a few dope plants and court costs. The poor subsistence dwellers go to jail for less. The attitudes are they may as well go to jail for something worth it, coz they're going to go there anyway. At least Alan got some overseas trips and earned his prison sentence. I cannot say the poor around here being locked up for comparatively minor survival crimes do. http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/members/...ls=&id=1122

http://tvnz.co.nz/content/44128
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#20 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 11:51 AM

Moe you should educate the unemployed that when obtaining temporary employment get the benefit subspended and then there is no stand down period.

This will also keep the unemployed at a more correct level as they are still registered.
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