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SEC 72 WHEN REASONABLY REQUIRED TO DO SO

#1 User is offline   FRED1956 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 07:53 PM

on the 16th Oct 2009 i had and appointment with the pain specialist and
I RECEIVED THIS LOVE LETTER TODAY PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THE DATES

10 November 2009 LETTER RECEIVED

14th November Saturday APPOINTMENT

As of yet i have not received the pain specialist report nor have i received a letter from the Orthopedic Specialist Assessment in regards to the appointment 14/11/09

And if i If you fail to contact IT to confirm (NO PH CALLS ALLOWED ALL BY MAIL) your entitlement to weekly compensation will cease as at 14/11/09.
And if i fail to attend this appointment, i will become non compliant and your entitlement to weekly compensation will cease as at 14/11/09. ( shit they work on Saturdays now )
and when i do go to the next appointment
my entitlement will be started again once i attend an Orthopaedic Assessment, however back dated weekly compensation will not be paid.

accident compensation corporation



Claim number:
Purchase order:

09 November 2009
Mr XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Dear XXXXXXXX
Referral for Orthopedic Specialist Assessment
Following on from your assessment with Dr XXXXXXXX, (16th oct 2009) ACC now requires an Orthopedic Assessment of your current injury related condition. This will enable ACC to determine your entitlements and ongoing rehabilitation.

An appointment has been made for you with Mr XXXXX. The details of this appointment are as follows:
; Specialist's Name: ; XXXXXX
i Location: jXXXXXXXXXX
Appointment: ! Date: Saturday 14th November 2009
Time: XXXXX

Mr XXX may ask you to undergo a physical examination, as well as to answer questions about your medical, work and recreational history. You have the right to a full explanation of any examination before it proceeds. You also have the right to take a support person with you to the appointment.

Section 72 of the Injury Prevention Rehabilitation Compensation Act as outlined below, clearly outlines your responsibilities to ACC;
Responsibilities of claimant who receives entitlement
(1) A claimant who receives any entitlement must, when reasonably required to do so by the Corporation,—
undergo assessment by a registered health professional specified
by the Corporation, at the Corporation's expense:
undergo assessment, at the Corporation's expense:
(g) undergo assessment of present and likely capabilities for the purposes of rehabilitation, at the Corporation's expense:
(h) participate in rehabilitation

ACC has a clear expectation that you attend this appointment Please contact me to confirm your attendance.
If you fail to contact me to confirm your attendance and therefore fail to attend this appointment, you will become non compliant and your entitlement to weekly compensation will cease as at 14/11/09. Your entitlement will be started again once you attend an Orthopaedic Assessment, however back dated weekly compensation will not be paid.
Please note that Orthopaedic Assessments are now being booked in February 2010, and unless a cancellation is available, you will be added to the waiting list for the next available appointment.
If you are unable to attend this appointment please contact me immediately on PhXXXXXXXXXXXto discuss.
Yours sincerely

XXXXXXXXXXX Case Manager
Telephone: Ph XXXXXXXXXX
Please be aware that unreasonable failure to participate in rehabilitation will result in the decline of further entitlements.



Section 72
1) A claimant who receives any entitlement must, when reasonably required to do so by the Corporation,—
undergo assessment by a registered health professional specified

my question is 4 days reasonable
am i not aloud to by writing ask for the 1st dr's report to confer with my Dr
and if i am is three days enough time to make an appointment to go to my Dr even though i dont have the 1st dr's report
what the hell happened to my code of rights
and i got to turn up on a Saturday
and is this not blackmail ... http://dictionary.re...rowse/blackmail ...to force or coerce into a particular action,... Extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.

and yes i have rung complaints and they ask it to put things right answer is 'dont turn up wont get paid '
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#2 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 08:09 PM

Totally unreasonable. Acc have to act reasonably and this is totally intimidation and threats.
Did you wite to Complaints and say you are being BLACKMAILED>
This is what ACC are doing to a great number of people, This is a form letter sent out to every long term claimant.
WHO WERE YOU BEING ASKED TO SEE ON A SATURDAY?]
}KAHAN, DuPleses, Turner or Wright??
OR otto or,, the list goes on..It will be because th e PAin report was in your favour I would guess an d CM dont like it.
You have th e right to see a list of assessors and also be given time to see the previous report and get your GP to comment.
Also you have th e right to be sent all the communication and reports ACC are sending this new assessor BEFORE YOU GO!!
ACC are totally unreasonable and you must take action.
you can file for Review "unreasnable action "against the CODE OF RIGHTS"
you can ask for a list of new assessors.
But first write to CM and demand that you get to see this report before any further action is taken and say that CM is acting unreasonably AND IN BREACH OF THE CLAIMANT CODE OF RIGHTS. tHIS CODE STATES THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE INFORMED.
YOU HAVE TH E RIGHT TO BE TREATED WITH DIGNITY AND RESPECT
you have the right to be treated fairly.
Huggy had this problem - one days notice. This is not good enough
Your CM is not doing this.CMin breach of code of rights
Write off tonight and if you need help with a letter, PM me.
good luck

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#3 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 11:04 PM

Fred, here we have another FOrm letter being sent out to long term claimants who ask for a list of assessors.
ACC are in breach of the law and their own codes.
If you get nowhere I suggest you download a Review form off th e ACC website and get it in the post immediately.
Or fax if you have it.
You can review the fact that ACC are acting unreasonably in forcing you to see an Assessor in 3 days notice BEFORE you have seen the original assessment dated 16 Oct.
This is totally unacceptable and unreasonable.ACC have to be seen to be acting reasonably!
I guess they have denied you rehab for years and ignored you and now all of a sudden the KPI season is upon us and they are getting stuck in
If you have to go, make sure that you ask the Assessor for all the information he has been sent from ACC, the copy of the previous assessment etc. Also take along with you all your reports and I so hope that you have a good current one from your Specialist and GP!!! Tell them you will be recording it, that is your right and also have a support person with you.
As you say three days is not long enough to get an opinion from your GP This can be your reason in the Review request as well.
I also would say that you will not BE AVAILABLE in the weekend as you have other commitments, It is totally unreasonable to tell someone to go to an Assessor on a Saturday. He is a travelling gravy man and has a full time job during the week. Is is DuPleses or Otto????

This is Phil Rileys "tough love" working out, get them for non-compliance if they cant chuck you because of your condition!! It is just sick and cruel and unreasonable and humans doing this to their fellows is just making me sick!!!
The Claimant code of rights under which they are supposed to work, haha, states they must keep you informed and to treat you with Dignity an d respect and they are NOT doing it!
Sorry for you!!
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#4 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 12:30 PM

Fred, here is a good reason why you cannot go at the whim of a CM to this appt. You say it is 100km each way.
Well, all you have to do is write or better email CM and say that as you have no transport and there is no alternatives in weekend, ACC either provide you with a taxi both ways or arrange a time suitable to you and them. They cannot force you to go in the weekend. That is unreasonable.
I hope you succeed.
All I was trying to find out which Dr as you may not be aware of some of the worst toadies. these are the ones who work in weekends!! One keeps ones ear to the ground and tht way one gets good info!! Also Forum is a start as well.owever, you have probably done your research and it is your right to protect your identity anyway!

ACC have to get you to that appointment. They re the ones demanding you go, so keep that in mind, stay firm and dont give in.. Once you do, they will not stop, it will be like the floodgates opening.
Good luck...
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#5 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 05:40 PM

<LI class=g><H3 class=r>Vasu Pai | Facebook</H3>Vasu Pai is on Facebook. Join Facebook to connect with Vasu Pai and others you may know. Facebook gives people the power to share and makes the world more ...
www.facebook.com/people/Vasu-Pai/1101133916 - Cached - Similar<LI class=g><H3 class=r>Bonefix Clinic</H3>Dr. Vasu Pai, FRACS


Name PAI, Vasudeva Shivaraya
Qualifications MB BS 1980 Mysore, FRACS (Orth) 2007
District Gisborne
Scope of Practice Vocational, General
Dr Pai is participating in an approved recertification programme relevant to the vocational scope of Orthopaedic Surgery.
Dr Pai may work outside the stated vocational scope but must do so within a collegial relationship.
Practising Certificate From 1 June 2009 to 31 May 2010
Vocational Scope Orthopaedic Surgery (5 February 2007)

Conditions None
General Scope 4 April 1996
Provisional Scope 4 April 1995

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#6 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 06:09 PM

Go to orthopedic surgeon above him. Then use the Martin case and section 54 Unreasonable!!!

mINI
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#7 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 06:35 PM

minithat is bad pratice.

Fred you should ask fopr the list of covered injuries and incapacities that is being supplied to the Doctor. Tell ACc that you will not be leaving your home with out that information.

If the information is not the same as your treating providers have told you inform the ACC that you will need to see your treating providers before attending and may have to take that matter to review and courts.

My guess is that they are looking at section 100 as you havent mention that you have been for the Occupational assessment.

This will put the onus on the case manager to get the information to you well before the appointment time.

You could be really cheeky in applying for a review as the has made the decision to remove your entitlements in the decision letter with out supplying enough information to you or transport.

You could also look at whether this is an assessment for the purpose of rehabilitation as it is not a provider that is treating you.

As for work have you seen an occupational assessor???

You have a rehab plan?????

there is more to do than just checking to see if the person is a toadie or not that can set your case manager and ACC contractors up for dishonesty. having your case manager criminally charged automatically allows you to have your compensation paid out in one lump sum (if you want to fight for the privalage)
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#8 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 06:42 PM

I'm sure some may agree with your advice doppel, but for those of us who have to deal with them......we can't afford to alienate them beyond a reminder to them that sometimes they are unreasonable in their demands and we wish to have our rights and thoughts taken into account.

Dopple an all out attack and who would pay for the mortgage and food for the family while acc hard arses sweat the family out just because they can. eh??? Definitely not a nice place to end up in.

Gloria.
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#9 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 08:01 PM

Gloria the claimant must apply the legislation when going for entitlements.

ACC can only gather information for the following.

Information collection
279 Purposes for which Corporation to collect information
(1) The Corporation may collect information for the following purposes:
(a) to enable a comprehensive claims database to be maintained:
(b ) to facilitate the monitoring of the operation of this Act:
© to monitor and evaluate the nature, incidence, severity, and consequences of injuries:
(d) injury prevention:
(e) the provision of appropriate rehabilitation and treatment:
(f) the provision of appropriate compensation:
(g) policy development under this Act:
(h) determining the cost to society of personal injury:
(i) levy setting:
(j) scheme management.
(2) The Corporation must collect—
(a) such information as is prescribed for the purposes set out in subsection (1)(a) to (i) by regulations made under this Act:
(B) information for such of the purposes set out in section 287 that are prescribed by regulations made under this Act.
(3) Information prescribed for the purpose set out in subsection (1)(a) must include information about the circumstances of the personal injury, the nature and severity of the personal injury, and its consequences.

If yu read the decision there is a high number of disputes are due to the injuries causing the incapacity is not the covered injury.

Its better to show that te case manager didn't have the correct information with the Dr that try to argue that the injury is covered in court.

If the case manager doesn't supply the correct information to the Dr its a privacy Act issue in which the case manager is responcable for any loss of compensation.

Of course asking the Dr for a copy of the documentation fropm the ACC can really put a spanner in the works as then the Dr can only put in the report what the inquiry is about it.
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#10 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 10:18 PM

Fred, this is a good report and so ACC wont accept it cos it is in your favour. So they send you off for another report.
well, I dont know who this Indian gentleman is, but you should have first discussed this report with GP and get him to write a letter if possible.
See ACC dont want to rehab you to a suitalbe job in your experience, they can only offer a computer course. And this Dude has said that is NOT suitable for you.
Do you suffer pain from spine?
Well, if you do, DONT downplay it!!
good luck and I wish you well. you have a favourable report and ACC are crazy to chuck you but this would be reiveiwed succesfully /I would have thought

I cannot see for the life of me how bone and chip man can do anything for you with that chest! I would have hoped a chest spoecalist would have been on offer!!
DONT go in the weekend, make them change it, it is unreasonable, short notice and they are desperate. Dont play along and dont suffer th e threats either!!
All the best
Sparrow
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#11 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 09:38 AM

Fred, I hope the CM is arranging transport for you to attend this 100k away mtg.
You can claim 28c km travel expenses if you fund it yourself, and you can download the form off the acc website.
You must get the Dr to sign the form
Dont be disappointed if Complaints whitewash the blackmail stuff. Stick to your guns
Go well Fred and good luck
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#12 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 11:06 AM

Sparrow the report is a report on "he said"

The para
Summary and background of current complaints

Summary and background of current complaints

Mr X has two major issues relevant to his current status. One is significantly impaired lung function. This he dates from XXXX when he worked at XXX XX He describes this as industrial asthma. He has confirmed chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Secondly, he had two major accidents, the first on X XXXX when a truck he was driving rolled. This was a significant accident and resulted in multiple rib fractures, a flail chest and a period in intensive care. Since that time he has had reduced lung capacity on top of his COPD. He also developed significant infections at that time. He returned to work quite quickly and he rolled a 2nd XXXX truck while not wearing a seatbelt He sustained further contusion to his chest although no fractures were identified. Again he had significant chest infections requiring antibiotics. CT scan in X XX revealed reduction in lung volume. Review by Dr X X in X showed an FEV1 of 1.76, and FVC 2.54. These are round 50% predicted values.

Regarding his pain complaints X describes an area from T6-T10 over his right anterior chest and abdomen in a typical radiated pattern of intercostal nerve damage. This is entirely consistent with his accident of 1st XXXX.

Where it says this he dates from Xxxxxxxx it should be the doctor's name that has said that there is a significant impaired lung function as it is the Dr. that gave the diagnosis and therefore filled out the claim form.

Again another privacy will correction should be done and that is it is the Dr. that described the injury as industrial asthma not the claimant not the patient.

Who confirm the chronic obstructive pulmonary disease? It would be the specialist that is actually giving the report and a specialist knees to put his name in the report or consider it a I.

He is also had two other accidents and the specialist that treated him knees to have their name in the medical report and the injuries as a result of those accidents.

Fred needs to make sure that all claim numbers are written in their healing its all claims are giving an incapacity.

It is obvious what a case manager is trying to do and that is to separate the claims and to find if taking only one claim there is going to be a capacity to work in one claim then the case manager is going to say that this person has other injuries and as these other injuries are causing the incapacity this person no longer has a rights to compensation under section 100

I'll quote a section from a document they Kaye Lawrence Catalyst injury management LTD general manager signed

The payment on account by nz police to catalyst by 31 May, 2001 equivalent of 30% of the reduction in Weeldy compensation costs of targeted tail claims for the period 1st of September 2000 to 28 February 2001.

The case manager here is no different to the case manager they carried out the exit programme in 2000. One has to look at every think that is produced by specialist and doctors assessors to make sure that the wording is correct.

He said this he said that is not the correct wording in an assessment. It is the specialist opinion that needs to be placed in the assessment. It was the specialist that gave the diagnose of industrial asthma and therefore it is that specialist name that needs to be in the document.

Self diagnosis is what the corporation claim this is all about. Claimants can not self diagnose and the corporation have used this he said claiming that it is a self diagnosis of the injuries. I know the questions asked by the specialists are cast in a certain way so that it is recorded in the report that he said this he said that.

The specialist could write (as in this case) that the claimant knows what injuries he has sustained in the different accidents. This is different to claiming that is our he said this is the injury.
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#13 User is offline   FRED1956 

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 05:18 PM

View PostNoDrsl, on Nov 12 2009, 03:05 PM, said:

Are you on medication that may impair driving or use of machinery?
If so take heed of the warnings on the drugs packaging and literature. If you are unsafe or do not feel safe driving at the time specified by ACC the onus is on you to not drive for if you do have an accident while impaired you are liable, thus you should request acc provide transport for you in such circumstances


hell yeah they just put me on some new shit after seeing the Dr above im spaced blurry eye most of the time and im still in my 1st week and need to increase it tomorrow at last the pain feels better more more surprising shocks across the chest they are crullllll
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#14 User is offline   Tattoo 

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 05:23 PM

drug testing for driving is now in effect. this includes some prescription drugs. if in doubt check with your chemist. rule of thumb is if it makes you drowsy then you should not be driving.
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#15 User is offline   FRED1956 

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 06:57 AM

View Postdoppelganger, on Nov 12 2009, 01:06 PM, said:

Sparrow the report is a report on "he said"

The para
Summary and background of current complaints

Summary and background of current complaints

Mr X has two major issues relevant to his current status. One is significantly impaired lung function. This he dates from XXXX when he worked at XXX XX He describes this as industrial asthma. He has confirmed chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Secondly, he had two major accidents, the first on X XXXX when a truck he was driving rolled. This was a significant accident and resulted in multiple rib fractures, a flail chest and a period in intensive care. Since that time he has had reduced lung capacity on top of his COPD. He also developed significant infections at that time. He returned to work quite quickly and he rolled a 2nd XXXX truck while not wearing a seatbelt He sustained further contusion to his chest although no fractures were identified. Again he had significant chest infections requiring antibiotics. CT scan in X XX revealed reduction in lung volume. Review by Dr X X in X showed an FEV1 of 1.76, and FVC 2.54. These are round 50% predicted values.

Regarding his pain complaints X describes an area from T6-T10 over his right anterior chest and abdomen in a typical radiated pattern of intercostal nerve damage. This is entirely consistent with his accident of 1st XXXX.

Where it says this he dates from Xxxxxxxx it should be the doctor's name that has said that there is a significant impaired lung function as it is the Dr. that gave the diagnosis and therefore filled out the claim form.

Again another privacy will correction should be done and that is it is the Dr. that described the injury as industrial asthma not the claimant not the patient.

Who confirm the chronic obstructive pulmonary disease? It would be the specialist that is actually giving the report and a specialist knees to put his name in the report or consider it a I.

He is also had two other accidents and the specialist that treated him knees to have their name in the medical report and the injuries as a result of those accidents.

Fred needs to make sure that all claim numbers are written in their healing its all claims are giving an incapacity.

It is obvious what a case manager is trying to do and that is to separate the claims and to find if taking only one claim there is going to be a capacity to work in one claim then the case manager is going to say that this person has other injuries and as these other injuries are causing the incapacity this person no longer has a rights to compensation under section 100

I'll quote a section from a document they Kaye Lawrence Catalyst injury management LTD general manager signed

The payment on account by nz police to catalyst by 31 May, 2001 equivalent of 30% of the reduction in Weeldy compensation costs of targeted tail claims for the period 1st of September 2000 to 28 February 2001.

The case manager here is no different to the case manager they carried out the exit programme in 2000. One has to look at every think that is produced by specialist and doctors assessors to make sure that the wording is correct.

He said this he said that is not the correct wording in an assessment. It is the specialist opinion that needs to be placed in the assessment. It was the specialist that gave the diagnose of industrial asthma and therefore it is that specialist name that needs to be in the document.

Self diagnosis is what the corporation claim this is all about. Claimants can not self diagnose and the corporation have used this he said claiming that it is a self diagnosis of the injuries. I know the questions asked by the specialists are cast in a certain way so that it is recorded in the report that he said this he said that.

The specialist could write (as in this case) that the claimant knows what injuries he has sustained in the different accidents. This is different to claiming that is our he said this is the injury.


Hi doppelganger seems you have made some very important observations there. ones i missed as i was the he said guy. however the who said what is known to acc and there is certainly no question over that and is in a 24 page affidavit i read last night took me over three hours to read (because of this new med making every thing so bloody blurry) it but i got there in the end has all the dr's names are mentioned in it it relates to as above
6. "His mind is set on some anger about ACC. I leave that for other authorities to discuss because it relates to his lung incapacity. "
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#16 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 10:33 AM

Hi Fred,

I looked at the report to see why the report is written in that way. This report has been passed the corporations lawyers. The report is obtain be used in a court sitting where it will claim that you are self diagnosing your injuries.

The legislation is clear that only a Dr. Can give you a medical opinion on your covered injuries. The corporation does not have enough reports as yet to take you to court and win. If you don't to correct the report that report will be used against you.

It doesn't matter if it's written later in the same document or another document as when a judge reads the document the judge will say that it is a self diagnosis and not a diagnosis of a qualified medical practitioner.

I know you're going to the specialist another GP so the corporation can obtain another document so they can use the document in court. The Dr. may not or may know what they're doing, but the corporation is only interested in gaining documents for the purpose of litigation.

As I have said you should correct using the privacy act the report that you have posted above.

You also should look it all other reports and have those reports also corrected.

The most important thing is that when you attend the medical examination on Saturday you should take copies of both report and corrections requested to the medical examiner. You should make sure that there medical examiner reads the documents before he starts your examination.

Those drugs you are on as they are causing you blurred vision you might want to go to your GP and ask for his opinion about the drugs in the side effects.
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#17 User is offline   FRED1956 

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 07:18 PM

Since seeing the Dr last Saturday and telling him i had no feeling on my right hand side and all the pushing and shoving he did which has made me extremely ill with ( sorry lady's ) coughing up blood, high fever, sweating and having to see my Dr Mon, Tues, and today because of the pain and the seriousness of it that resulted in his actions i feel this pic is appropriate to my CM.
I was fine you $%$$ B ich the pain i had before i went the was manageable even block it out most times even the Dr said he could do nothing to assist me and chests where not in his field and there is Absolutely NO WAY ANYONE SHOULD TRY TO OPERATE TO EVEN TRY TO ATTEMPT to fix it . so take this and sit on it till YOU feel the pain

Attached File(s)


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#18 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 09:39 PM

Fred, I am sorry you went on that appointment. they sent you under duress and unreasonable.However, you saw an Orthopod and your main trouble according to the report you have is your chest. Did this dude have that report?
Well, it is time to KICK UP A STINK, A HUGE ONE.
What you must do if it hasnt been done is to get an ACC45 form from yor GP and it is a treatment injury claim.Also you must write to CM and protest at the treatment you received, Tell her loud an d clear that you intend going for pecuniary damages...
State you have been seriously injured by a medical professional who was not in the spoeciality of your chest injuries.
Write to complaints, in fact ring them and do a huge protest.

You must make a big stink. Medical council as well, that would be good too.
Get the GP to back you.
So sorry you are in such trouble, let CM now try an d kick you off.

LET THIS BE A LESSON TO EVERYONE. INSTRUCT THE ASSESSOR THAT YOU ARE NOT TO BE TOUCHED AN D IF HE STARTS PRODDING AN D LIFTING LEGS AND PUSHING ETC, yell BLUE MURDER, AND WALK OUT!!!INSTRUCT HIM IF HE INJURES YOU , YOU WILL BE SUING HIM. tHEY USUALY BACK OFF THEN.
We all have enough to put up with without being injured further by a ACC assessor.
This guy certainly should not be practicing!! Indian trained too remember -is he REGD in NZ?????
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