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INDIVIDUAL REHABILITATION PLAN Advice Wanted - IRP Goal/Outcome

#1 User is offline   Fighter for Justice 

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 10:56 AM

ACC drafted my IRP with the Goal of: "Return to Work OR Work Ready" - despite two Medical Reports stating I am not fit for 35 hours per week work.
Is the WEIR CASE still the Authority on IRP Outcomes/Goals or not?
Are there any other leading Cases on IRP's + Outcomes/Goals.
I am reviewing my Deemed IRP myself and would appreciate any advice!
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#2 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 11:34 AM

View PostFighter for Justice, on Jul 12 2009, 10:56 AM, said:

ACC drafted my IRP with the Goal of: "Return to Work OR Work Ready" - despite two Medical Reports stating I am not fit for 35 hours per week work.


get rid of you attitude that because you are not fit to work for 35 hours a week that you are also not fit to work 20 hours per week.

Your advice would be remove the work ready, but have a plan that shows that you have a path to be employed at something.
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#3 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 12:48 PM

View Postdoppelganger, on Jul 12 2009, 12:34 PM, said:

get rid of you attitude that because you are not fit to work for 35 hours a week that you are also not fit to work 20 hours per week.

Your advice would be remove the work ready, but have a plan that shows that you have a path to be employed at something.



It seems to me over many years of having to participate in these plans, that these return to or ready for dates are simply goals to work towards and the IRP is due to be updated once these dates have been reached.

I'm not saying this is right because I am well aware that the legislation says that the IRP is to be updated from time to time to reflect any change.

The way they work it is to bring it into line with their expected outcomes......their KPI indicators. If the IRP is updated from time to time.....seems to be 6 or 12 monthly.....which will be reflected in the goal date.....it pushes up the weighting in the ratio of Hay to Pay.

As these IRP's are to be updated from time to time....I suggest you take note that these dates are not set in concrete, but they are amended forward each time an IRP comes around.

So.....don't panic sir about that part of the IRP....concentrate on getting all your soc and voc needs included in the IRP. You don't need to go to review....you just need to rewrite your IRP and present it as the newest updated one. If they don't want to accept it, then you can review their decision not to accept your very reasonable IRP.

Anyone think different....please butt in here and put up your suggestions.

It becomes very much easier to work with them than against them....make your entitlement work to your advantage.

Gloria
Gloria.
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#4 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 03:07 PM

Just a point the IRP includes all of the rehabilitation requests and what is supplied. An up date is that an up date and not a new IRP.

You IRP must contain all assessments that ACC has taken to complete Vocational and Social rehabilitation. It also has all of the outcomes as well

If you have been to 2, 3, or 4 rounds of vocational Assessments with out acheiving any of the goals then it is a very good or bad document. Because you are incharge of your Vocational Rehabilitation you can make it to your advantage. Its only when there is no Vocational Rehabilitation being done and are doing other activities that the case manager get the idea that you have the ability to work for 35 hours per week.

Also note that you previous employer may be liable to pay for any Vocational rehabilitation (section 71)
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#5 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 06:59 PM

Oh Doppel not true. They write a bloody new document every time mate. the old stuff is replaced with the new stuff, unless it hasn't been brought to fruition and then they extend the outcome date. Thats why you should take each opportunity to rewrite your own including on it everything you think you need to achieve.

Gloria.


View Postdoppelganger, on Jul 12 2009, 04:07 PM, said:

Just a point the IRP includes all of the rehabilitation requests and what is supplied. An up date is that an up date and not a new IRP.

You IRP must contain all assessments that ACC has taken to complete Vocational and Social rehabilitation. It also has all of the outcomes as well

If you have been to 2, 3, or 4 rounds of vocational Assessments with out acheiving any of the goals then it is a very good or bad document. Because you are incharge of your Vocational Rehabilitation you can make it to your advantage. Its only when there is no Vocational Rehabilitation being done and are doing other activities that the case manager get the idea that you have the ability to work for 35 hours per week.

Also note that you previous employer may be liable to pay for any Vocational rehabilitation (section 71)

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#6 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 07:35 PM

Gloria what would your IRP look like with all of the rehabilitation requests denied and all of the assessment that ended in nothing but time waisting. this would look good in court documents.

Section 75 is the Corporation must prepare an IRP if one is needed. Clause 10 says that the plan may be modified when the Claimant and ACc agree to it.

there is nothing in any of the Acts that says that when the case manager fails to exit a claimant the next claimant must start a new IRP.
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#7 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 07:47 PM

View Postdoppelganger, on Jul 12 2009, 08:35 PM, said:

Gloria what would your IRP look like with all of the rehabilitation requests denied and all of the assessment that ended in nothing but time waisting. this would look good in court documents.

Section 75 is the Corporation must prepare an IRP if one is needed. Clause 10 says that the plan may be modified when the Claimant and ACc agree to it.

there is nothing in any of the Acts that says that when the case manager fails to exit a claimant the next claimant must start a new IRP.


Why would you think that an IRP is an exit tool?

An IRP is a negotiated Plan.....regardless of who writes it first....you just change it and send it back....until both parties agree. Pointless letting it get deemed cause you have the wasted a lot of negotiation time. Its a bargaining tool....one you can utilize to get what you need. IMHO and experience.

Gloria
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#8 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 09:43 PM

View PostGloria Mitchell, on Jul 12 2009, 08:47 PM, said:

Why would you think that an IRP is an exit tool?

An IRP is a negotiated Plan.....regardless of who writes it first....you just change it and send it back....until both parties agree. Pointless letting it get deemed cause you have the wasted a lot of negotiation time. Its a bargaining tool....one you can utilize to get what you need. IMHO and experience.

Gloria


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#9 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 10:12 PM

an IRP is the case managers plan on how to gain the reports that it is required to say that you are fit to work for 35 hours per week

When a claimant gets a blank IRP amendment forn or a blank IRP to acheive the beginning of there rehabilitation. If a claimant requestd vocational Rehabilitation the first think that the case manager does is make an IRP to have assessment to be ready for work. The end of the assessment process is no rehabilitation and no compensation if the person can be found to be vocational Independent.

persons should have an IRP to obtain a certain type of employment and make ACC pay for training on the job as well. Hows that got the explaination.
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#10 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 12:55 AM

Doppel I think you misunderstand the IRP.

Fairgo....can you help him?

Gloria.
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#11 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 10:34 AM

View PostFighter for Justice, on Jul 12 2009, 10:56 AM, said:

ACC drafted my IRP with the Goal of: "Return to Work OR Work Ready" - despite two Medical Reports stating I am not fit for 35 hours per week work.
Is the WEIR CASE still the Authority on IRP Outcomes/Goals or not?
Are there any other leading Cases on IRP's + Outcomes/Goals.
I am reviewing my Deemed IRP myself and would appreciate any advice!


this is a tipical of an exit IRP and the goal of "Return to work OR work ready " is the out come for Vocational Rehabilitation in the policy Gloria. This is a document that is described in the policy on how to write the IRP, carry our the assessment, ask the correct questions, have assessments modified ti get the out come so that the case manager gets a higher remuneration.

hence the reason why ACC starts a new IRP each time they start the assessment process.

Claimants on the other hand can make ACC show all of the errors completed in each of the assessments previously by showing that ACC have not had the goal of "training to obtaining employment in.............................!!!!" Now I have seen return to work in an IRP when the person is in stable part time work. I would have though that the IRP would be more suited to maintain work.

Gloria fron the reading of the post above Fighter of Justice is not working and thinks that she does not need to work because she can not work for 35 or more hours per week.

If she is working then she has a must in taking it to review. As I say to all working part time like you makes it better to get a change in the IRP.
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#12 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:19 PM

whoops
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#13 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:42 PM

For Goodness sake, we cannot be continually fighting everything.....we need a life.

You take what you can and use it to set things in place.

The last line of wording in the form IRP reads.....

This plan will be evaluated and updated if necessary on receipt of any/all medical information.


So....get some more medical information and then ask for the deemed IRP to be updated.


For goodness sake Doppel watch your attitude.....you sound more like an acc employee than an injured person. You of all people should know that assumptions are rife on what one person and the next can accomplish. For example......IF it had been followed up on the report I had a ruptured anterior cruciate ligament and it had been repaired then....I would have continued to have a life. Instead that report was buried and then toady assessments denied and argued the fact......finally after twenty years of trying to function on an unstable knee......impossible to function on a knee without the two bracing factors ...where the lack of one leaves the joint like a wobbly jelly in any type of other than careful straight on a level ground step and continually chewing out the joint surface........an MRI confirmed the originally proposed ruptured anterior cruciate ligament. Of course it was "all in my head" I was a "malingerer" one of the "stock" a "bludger." Until it was confirmed by MRI....wellll....helllooo no wonder I spent those years in increasing discomfort and increasing pain and increasing lack of mobility. So.....could I have worked? Office work was mooted and pushed. doppel....ever tried to work in an office where your every motion means walking around furniture - notice what that does to your knee....twists the joint it there is no ligament to brace it. So I never worked in an office where you just sit and work. up, down up, down....all day. Just getting up means using both knees in a sideways movement cause you have to move the bloody chair for goodness sake... from under the desk.

What I am trying to say is bloody lay off telling people here what they can and can't do mate. A fully unfit for work med cert means just what it says. YOU ARE FULLY UNFIT FOR WORK. Of course you can live.....you just don't have the capacity to work. Yes, you still have a brain.....but it takes more than intelligence to hold down a job. Its the little things ultimately that preclude you being able to function in a manner that is acceptable to an employer.


The sections on the IRP are all...Action; Purpose; Result of action/assessed needs.
for example first section on my latest IRP. I hope this transfers as is.


Action
Mrs Mitchell to provide appropriate regular..........date started/referred
medical certificates for her ongoing entitlements..responsibility...Mrs Mitchell

Purpose]................................................To be achieved by...31.01.2010

blank.

Result of action/assessed needs................initials................GM

Blank...............................................................Actual date action completed. blank

.......................................................................date results entered................blank
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#14 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:48 PM

Sorry for losing my cool here, but sometimes you guys go on and on about things that are so simple.....make them so bloody difficult and adversarial when they have no need to be.....and if its done wrong....then just rearrange the darn thing and make sure it is right before you sign it.....if you need more time then communicate this to the cm....she can't deem it in an unreasonable manner....well he/she can but it won't hold water.

Gloria.

Gloria
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#15 User is offline   Shapeshifters 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 03:55 PM

Hi guy's IRP stuff gets wobbly as we know ,hang in there
Anyone able to post template for "MY Plan" or PM me a copy
We need to stick together in hard times

S/S
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#16 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 04:09 PM

Gloria

I agree it is a working tool that if used correctly it will bring out all the reason why and why not!!

Both........not just the one they want to bring out. Not if you dont let them overlook the why not!! You need you Doctor behind you and be prepared to get up-dated specialists reports and pay for them yourself if need be.

And you are right it doesnt have to be adversial. I actually went down to ACC and sat with CM while we worked out what we were going to do by such and such date. It never got past IMA, with my doctor having last say. Five of them then decided, individually that it was right to put me on long term and a one year certificate.

The difficulty when you do it yourself, is being prepared for any outcome and the likelihood that you could be fit for work.

Of course I can plod along at my own pace, but that doesnt mean I can go fast enough to keep a employer happy. If that was so I would still be working at my well paid job, which I loved.

Treason should get that book by Hazle Armstrong and Rob Laurs, "Votcation Independence: outcomes for ACC Claimants".

This points out clearly that if you let the RPI go through the IOA and IMA without stopping it going onto Voc Rehab, then you are just about done for. So get stuck in Treason and obtain some insight by reading this book.
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#17 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 05:26 PM

View PostFighter for Justice, on Mar 14 2009, 04:12 PM, said:

Doppelganger, just to clarify - I am not fit for selected work. I am totally unfit for any work (including old job). I have been on ACC for more than 15 years. You state that ACC cannot pay for more than three years vocational rehabilitation (including university study).
This is totally incorrect. ACC can now pay for more than three years vocational rehabilitation (including university study) since approx October 2008 (when amendments to ACC Act occurred).
I believe ACC are just using my Deemed IRP (including IOA and IMA) as an exit tool - as last time I raised the issue of university study and social rehabilitation I was sent to Dr Turner!.
ACC have never paid for any social or vocational rehabilitation for me ever.


as by the post in March this person is saying that they are totally unfit for any work.

What the ACC are doing is looking to see if they are totally unfit ot fit for selected work. Totally Unfit means that the person can not be placed in employment because of Physical Incapacity's.

One also needs to look at section section 103 as the doctor has to answer the question in there which is
(2) The question that the Corporation must determine is whether
the claimant is unable, because of his or her personal injury, to
engage in employment in which he or she was employed when
he or she suffered the personal injury.


there is still no question on each medical certificate what the ACC has to ask the Dr at each and every medical certificate. this was part of the fraud investigation and the martin report and still has not changed to include such a question.

the certificate has "Claimant unable to resume any duties at work from." what work is this? is it pre injury employment? is it employment that had been taken after the incapacity? One has to be clear and not ambiguous when asking for information.

So when I sound like a case manager it is for a good reason. This person is looking to be set up for a fraud investigation because of information in the certificate which is unclear as to the purpose it is going to be used for.

For this person to ask to obtain vocational rehabilitation the person has to fit for other work or selective work.

A good point in arguing would to be to get an addition to the medical certificate showing that they are unfit for pre-injury work but fit for other selective work.
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#18 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 01:01 AM

[quote name='Shapeshifters' date='Jul 14 2009, 04:55 PM' post='85876']
Hi guy's IRP stuff gets wobbly as we know ,hang in there
Anyone able to post template for "MY Plan" or PM me a copy
We need to stick together in hard times

S/S
[/quotetake an old one and copy and print it...then whiteout what was written in it, then copy the white outed one. You now have a template....well that is what I did. I also copied one to forum....see if I can pull it up for you.

ACC template for writing your own IRP. darn that's not a link.

Maybe this will work. http://accforum.org/...?showtopic=7692
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#19 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 01:21 AM

ahj this one should work.....

http://accforum.org/...?showtopic=7692

cheers Gloria.
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#20 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 01:28 AM

View Postdoppelganger, on Jul 14 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

For this person to ask to obtain vocational rehabilitation the person has to fit for other work or selective work.

A good point in arguing would to be to get an addition to the medical certificate showing that they are unfit for pre-injury work but fit for other selective work.


Doppel if you read Minis post.....and from my own experience years ago....a fit for selelcted work will get you all the way to exit without passing go.....and unfortunately thats whether or not you actually have any capacity for a particular work. Maybe a weighbridge operator....historical try hard that destroyed a lot of claimants lives. Remember?

Its difficult doppel.

Gloria.
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