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Brennan v ACC 101/09 Chronic Pain - a decision by Judge Ongley

#1 User is offline   Tattoo 

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 01:24 PM

The issue is about whether the claimant suffered chronic pain from psychosocial factors (non-injury related) or from chronic pain from an injury caused by accident. This shows how evidence should be 'weighed up' when making a decision on whether a claimant is suffering from an injury-related condition.

Dr Tait's opinion versus Dr Turner's opinion. Dr Turner is wrong yet again!

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#2 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 03:54 PM

The ACC is attempting to take away the authority from the medical universities the meaning of injury and incapacity by not reducing a new form of medicine into New Zealand called "best practice medicine" which is essentially based on statistical information rather than actual examination of the injured person. More than 50% of the New Zealand medical professionals have bought into this new medical concept.

This is where you get the introduction of terminology such as yellow flags, syndromes and suchlike rather than the identification and measuring of actual anatomical structure. When the doctor does not look very carefully he is then able to report that he does not see anything. Instead they work with statistical information and pronounce a syndrome or a condition common with many other conditions of which it is only a very short step to accuse the claimant by the malingering or psychologically disordered. The next step is to identify a pre-existing psychological condition. This is where they then start talking about borderline disorders so as to indemnify themselves against malpractice, which the ACC would cover them for in any event, unlike other countries where the doctor would be sued to hell and back.

Chronic pain syndrome is for example a meaningless diagnosis in itself without reference to the originator of the pain. I originator of the pain I am talking about specifically identifying the actual biological defect to the finite degree. To make such a diagnosis is very expensive and one of which the ACC is on willing to fund as invariably if you look hard enough you will find what is actually wrong and may be required to fund its repair all were still rehabilitate the person.

Effectively what the ACC are trying to do is to get a "legally" qualified judge to make a "medical" diagnosis, which of course the judge is not permitted to do. The judge may ask for a medical referee to determine the most relevant medical report for his decision but he is not permitted to make medical determinations himself. In this case the judge is forced to carry on with the status quo on the medical certificates and disregard the ACC medical report that does not specify with due particularity.
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#3 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 10:52 PM

Nice to read of a win in Court after a lost Review.
Time Turner was put out to grass or made to refund the thousands $$ he rakes in from ACC with long shonky reports.
Specialist indeed.
Usual load of Tomo bollocks BUT....
Nice one, thanks Tatoo for posting this !
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#4 User is offline   fairgo 

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 10:07 AM

Nice to see a sensible and thorough decision made by the judge taking into account both medical opinions and weighing the balance. Also nice to see that the 'accredited' ACC specialist didn't automatically get the "GO" card. Barrie Tait is a gem of a man and as always presents very sound arguments.
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#5 User is offline   greg 

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 12:33 PM

From Alans post above;

Is this not how insurance companies set premiums??. which is essentially based on statistical information

" The ACC is attempting to take away the authority from the medical universities the meaning of injury and incapacity by not reducing a new form of medicine into New Zealand called "best practice medicine" which is essentially based on statistical information rather than actual examination of the injured person. More than 50% of the New Zealand medical professionals have bought into this new medical concept.".
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#6 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 01:37 PM

Greg perhaps we should follow the rabbit down the hole and see where it leads.
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#7 User is offline   henth 

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  Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:34 PM

:(

View PostTattoo, on Jun 17 2009, 01:24 PM, said:

The issue is about whether the claimant suffered chronic pain from psychosocial factors (non-injury related) or from chronic pain from an injury caused by accident. This shows how evidence should be 'weighed up' when making a decision on whether a claimant is suffering from an injury-related condition.

Dr Tait's opinion versus Dr Turner's opinion. Dr Turner is wrong yet again!




hay all, thanks for posting 'Tattoo' I am coming up against Turners report, although there are many (like Turner)that acknowledge over the years, this will be the second time with the Disputes Tribunal, have been through before they try to accuse you, but they are told everything......any advise for Monday....
been in immense pain since 1993..many pain killers..

cheers to all

henth :o
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#8 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:09 PM

My ADVICE to you is PRINT OUT THE MARTIN CASE MENTIONED ON HERE OVER LAST FEW DAYS. THERE IS A LINK BEEN POSTED SO YOU CAN DOWNLOAD IT. TAKE IT WITH YOU TO REVIEW. READ IT DIGEST IT AND USE IT!!
good luck,Turner is a toad and does not understand anything but money...
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#9 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 12:53 PM

Thanks Tatoo

Shows the appellants advocate to be 'with it' eh???

Well done 'advocate' and Judge Ongley.

Mini
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#10 User is offline   henth 

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 07:20 PM

;)

View PostSparrow, on Aug 17 2009, 10:09 PM, said:

My ADVICE to you is PRINT OUT THE MARTIN CASE MENTIONED ON HERE OVER LAST FEW DAYS. THERE IS A LINK BEEN POSTED SO YOU CAN DOWNLOAD IT. TAKE IT WITH YOU TO REVIEW. READ IT DIGEST IT AND USE IT!!
good luck,Turner is a toad and does not understand anything but money...


To all in this forum
Thanks for that good advise, have printed it off with a few others that are in the same region, the last time ACC did this, I felt so intimidated and frustrated, they don't have to live with this pain, was a very active person before the accident, had a great job - I still miss it after all these years, but made some great friend in the time I did work...dont suppose there are many in that ACC arena that would understand - it not the money - it the principal..have seen so many specialists over the years, and they all concur other than those who have never met me, and those who are paid to write what they have been told too..well this time I am fighting before they get a chance.
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#11 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 10:44 AM

henth

Good on you. Go for it. If you don't try you will never know.

Those of us who gave up our work begrudingly know how you feel and ACC soon learns the truth of how you feel, because you fight with a passion, to get your rights and that can only be good.

And if you have any specific questions just ask, but dont forget you will have to give some background.

Its nice to hear that some are gettin inspiration and confidence from our hard efforts.

Good Luck

Mini
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#12 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 10:49 AM

henth

Good on you. Go for it. If you don't try you will never know.

Those of us who gave up our work begrudingly know how you feel and ACC soon learns the truth of how you feel, because you fight with a passion, to get your rights and that can only be good.

And if you have any specific questions just ask, but dont forget you will have to give some background.

Its nice to hear that some are gettin inspiration and confidence from our hard efforts.

Good Luck

Mini
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