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INITIAL OCCUPATIONAL ASSESSMENT IOA responsibilities re discussing Work Detail Sheets

#1 User is offline   Fighter for Justice 

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 09:32 AM

Is the Occupational Assessor required to discuss Job choices with claimant for an IOA. Does the Occupational Assessor have to provide claimant with: Work Detail Sheets and/or Pay Rates for the suggested jobs?

Advice wanted!
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#2 User is offline   Fighter for Justice 

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 11:43 AM

BUMP TO THE FRONT OF ACCFORUM
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#3 User is offline   greg 

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 12:24 PM

NO. When I had an IOA.. done, all that was required by the IOA. assessor/s was to gain information about

your working life. From this information, they decided as to which occupations your skills and education

were suited to.

They are not required to take any notice of any injury [arc 18 listed restriction] into this assessment.


From this report ACC then sends you for an IMA.. who then checks the injury status [restrictions etc] against

the selected occupations listed. The IMA.. report will show any selected occupation/s they believe you are

capable of doing for 35 hours per week , allowing for any injuries and restrictions as supplied by ACC.. worksheets.


There maybe some changes in 2008 ACC updates, but the main thrust should be the same.



ACC only has to find 1[one] occupation the IMA report recommends for you to be considered work ready EXIT..
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#4 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 12:25 PM

The function of the occupational assessor is to quantify all of the qualifications, experience and skill the claimant utilised for purposes of earning preinjury.

The next step is to break down the individual work task activities and determine whether or not those work task activities can be reconfigured and utilised in a different occupation. This is a purely technical task required of the occupational assessor and does not necessarily involve the claimant is the claimant can only provide an unqualified opinion.

The presumption from legislation is that the occupational assessors are no less qualified than the medical assessor's for purposes of producing independent reports.

Legislation requires that the occupational assessor produced for the medical assessor a list of work task activities, described with due particularity, so as the occupational assessor and determine whether or not those task activities are safe while having regard for the injuries.

Many people complain that the medical assessor has produced an inaccurate report when in reality the medical assessor has not received sufficient information to make any report.

Assessors producing documentation not known to be true for pecuniary advantage of the themselves or the ACC or disadvantage of the claimant could not a number of different crimes under the crimes act all of which results in a term of imprisonment not exceeding seven years. The term of imprisonment is measured by the amount of money at stake.

Many people complain to a reviewer and then to the district court judge about documentation produced by occupational and medical assessors. This is not the correct venue to challenge such documentation. A proper venue as the criminal court.
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#5 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 01:42 PM

View PostFighter for Justice, on May 28 2009, 09:32 AM, said:

Is the Occupational Assessor required to discuss Job choices with claimant for an IOA. Does the Occupational Assessor have to provide claimant with: Work Detail Sheets and/or Pay Rates for the suggested jobs?

Advice wanted!


Yes they must discuss the work/ job options with you and that is in the Act. section 90. -- 92. The Act it doesn't says that it has to advisable of the earnings amount.

If you have just done an IOA and want pay scales then ask your case manager for then as you believe that you were looking at a higher earnings with your suggested rehabilitation.

Work detail sheets was compulsory to be sent out with the assessment, if they have stopped this then how is the injured person going to know what activities are in the jobs listed.

http://www.acc.co.nz/for-providers/work-ty....htm?ref=footer

Good luck with your hunting.
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#6 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 08:05 PM

Doppelganger the work detail sheets do not describe the individual work task activities of the occupations with anywhere near sufficient detail for purposes of a medical assessment. It would seem that the ACC have an expectation that the medical assessor knows what individual task activities take place within the list of occupations.

The sole purpose of those work details sheet is to allow everybody into a false sense of security.

For example when designing a machine so as the user is not injured it is critical that bio kinetics and suchlike are taken into account. The occupational assessor simply must provide the medical assessor by kinetic information. I find it doubtful that many of the occupational assessors even comprehend the terminology let alone have any qualification in the subject.
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#7 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 10:41 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on May 28 2009, 08:05 PM, said:

For example when designing a machine so as the user is not injured it is critical that bio kinetics and suchlike are taken into account. The occupational assessor simply must provide the medical assessor by kinetic information. I find it doubtful that many of the occupational assessors even comprehend the terminology let alone have any qualification in the subject.


You are talking about qualifications and experance . People that are in this type of jobs will know what level of qualifications required to carry out this type of work.

the discription in the work sheet is fairly accurate

Quote

Industrial Designer

Description:
Plans, designs, develops and documents industrial, commercial or consumer products for manufacture with particular emphasis on ergonomic (human) factors, marketing considerations and manufacturability, and prepares designs and specifications of products for mass or batch production.
Work Tasks (may include any combination of the following):
Determines the objectives and constraints of the design brief by consulting with clients and stakeholders; undertakes product research and analyses functional, commercial, cultural and aesthetic requirements; formulates design concepts for industrial, commercial and consumer products; prepares sketches, diagrams, illustrations, plans, samples and models to communicate design concepts; negotiates design solutions with clients, management, and sales and manufacturing staff; selects, specifies and recommends functional and aesthetic materials, production methods and finishes for manufacture; details and documents the selected design for production; prepares and commissions prototypes and samples; supervises the preparation of patterns, programmes and tooling, and the manufacture process.
Work Environment:
Works indoors in design studios, workrooms, and factories.
Works in adequately heated and ventilated work spaces.
Work Function/Activity1:
Sedentary to light physical demand levels.
Frequently sits at a computer, design table or drawing board. Will occasionally stand and walk inside.
Stretching up and reaching across may be required in the building of some models.
Bending over work in process may be frequent for some modelling, drawing or detail inspection tasks on-site.
Squatting, crouching and kneeling may be required in some modelling and inspection processes.
Twisting of the body or neck is not a significant feature of the job.
Contact with skin irritants or water is not a significant feature of the job.
Lifting, carrying and holding movements are likely to be required when undertaking some design work.
Repetitive movements with the hands are likely to be required due to the use of computers, and performing tasks such as sketching and modelling work. Much industrial design is now carried out via the use of computers with design software.
Driving is not a significant feature of the job.
Use of hand-held objects and equipment will be frequent and may include sketching, drawing, design tools, drawing boards, cameras and computers with specialised design software.
Mental activities necessary include design, drawing, creative, technical and mathematical, problem-solving and communication skills. Employees also need to have some knowledge of computer-aided design processes.
Further Comments:
There are opportunities for flexibility of movement.
Entry Requirements:
A relevant tertiary qualification or at least five years applicable experience. In some instances particular experience and/or on-the-job training may be required.



take the entry Requirement well above your education and experance.

in your case the employment option would not be entered due to lack of education and experance.
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#8 User is offline   greg 

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 09:36 AM

answer to first question
For the IOA to find occupations [job choise] a discussion will take place. This is done as if you are 'not injuried.'
This is based on all of your previous training , qualifications and experience. .


answer to second question

When I had an IOA. no work sheets were anywhere to be seen. The assessor just listed jobs they believed I had the
experience and training for. As I was a trademan and had only ever worked in 2 occupation in 20 years, the
choises were very limited. At NO time were ANY ARC 18 restrictions applied to the job choises. The first time
any worksheets were sited was in the IOA report . I understand pay rates are now included.

It is the IMA [medical] assessment to then add restrictions etc to the suitability of each occupation based on a worksheet.
There been up to 4 different versions used , all which have a different set of restrictions for the same tasks.

I would ask which set the IMA is using and what set the IOA used.

It is the IMA [medical] reports as to whether you are medically un/sustainable for each job choise for 35 hours .

This is how I went through an IOA then an IMA..
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#9 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 12:11 PM

Greg I take your point but when the assessor carries out the assessment they must look at the section and as the section that the work that may be approximate for the claimant. It may not be to the length of time that was worked before the Accident but must be approximate meaning that the person could be able to carry out that employment part or full time.

Most people don't relise this but the best way to stuff up the Exit process is to obtain a part time job in one of the occupations that is recomended. getting the part time work will then have ACC to look at that occupation to see if they can increase the hours. If it is medically impossible then the VIMA can be limited to the job you have in the part time employment.

I have seen various documentations describing the work tasks. most are written for employment agencies so that they can use them for a sales gimic to goverment departments like ACC All have some were that they are only guide lined and even if a medical assessir says that a certain occupation can be completed when it can't because the assessor or claimant didn't know that there were other activities included when carrying out the assessment that assessment can be changed because you found new information.

this is the same as ACC starts a new process because they obtain new information.
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#10 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 01:20 PM

Doppelganger that you need to look at the issue of employability or capacity to work in an occupation from the employer's point of view, which is what the occupational assessor is required to do. The question asked of the occupational assessor is whether or not the claimant has the necessary qualification, experience and skill to perform all of the work task activities of any occupation listed.

A classical example of one that I was involved with was a 747 pilot. The occupational assessor determined that because a 747 pilot needs to know how to use and programme the cockpit flight computer he could therefore be a computer programmer. Despite $13,000 worth of various medical reporting and the costs of legal counsel the review hearing decision went on the ACCs favour confirming that he has a capacity to work as a computer programmer.

As the physical demands upon a 747 pilot is much the same as a computer programmer what information would you expect the occupational assessor to have given the medical assessor to determine the safety to fly a desk bound computer? The worksheets did not demonstrate any substantial differences in the physical aspects of the work tasks.

We managed to overturn this decision at the district court.

Doppelganger can you see that the criteria necessary to perform the individual task activities of all occupations requires a degree of competence of the assessor. Who was qualified to know whether or not the two different types of computer programming are interchangeable? Certainly not the reviewer or the district court judge. How would you propose challenging and occupational assessor as to whether or not any given person could or could not carry out the task activities in any given occupation?

Unfortunately your mind appears to be preoccupied with jiggery-pokery. This has probably come about from too much Association with the ACC to the extent that you have become irrational like them. It seems that you have been lulled into a false sense of security by the ACC worksheets that they give to the occupational assessors from which the assessors select from with no more expertise than dipping into a lucky dip.

Doppelganger it is not helpful for you to promote the ACC propaganda regarding the occupational and medical assessments. Perhaps you are not aware that you are suckered into these thought processes.
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#11 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 02:31 PM

So Alan answer the question as to what injury did your freind have.

I can not see a person with a leg injury can not become a computer programmer. It was clear that your freind could not fly a 747 so the injury must be reasonably serious.

remember the word approximate means just that. if the person had a brain injury then becomming a computer programmer could be a problem.

you think that it is ACC properganger but look again. working to the max is not what ACC wants as it does not allow them to have claimants assessed to death so that the case manager can gain there remuneration
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#12 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 04:07 PM

Doppelganger you seem to be very easily distracted away from the individual work task activities that make up an occupation and how those individual work task activities might be transferred into a new occupation. At the occupational assessment stage it is completely irrelevant what the injury is that rather what transportable work task competencies exist.

In the case of the 747 pilot the issue was whether or not programming a 747 was in any way similar to programming a business computer. It is only when there is sufficient transportable task competencies to a new occupation that the physical elements are considered.

Doppelganger if you allow ACC to get your mind all jumbled up your never be able to address the sequence of events and therefore never be able to understand where they are going wrong. Generally people end up arguing the wrong point and all too frequently blaming the doctor. What is notable is that most people perceive they have some kind of inherent qualification to determine what type of occupation they themselves can do even though they had never done it.

Doppelganger for example I understand that you were a forestry worker. Does this mean that think you would be qualified and experienced sufficient to cut down trees in the city? I think not.
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#13 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 05:06 PM

now you are saying that the assessor said that the airline polit hadall of the necessary skills and education to be a computer programmer. this is different to what greg was talking about in the Initial Occupational assessor may have though that the airline polit was a suitabe person to be retrained to be a computer programmer.

So what was the polit injuries?????????

Quote

Doppelganger for example I understand that you were a forestry worker. Does this mean that think you would be qualified and experienced sufficient to cut down trees in the city? I think not.


I certainally was but remember that cutting down trees is not being a pruner which is different to a horticulturists. cutting down trees inthe forestry was approached a bit differently.
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