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FCE

#1 User is offline   bruceie 

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  Posted 12 May 2009 - 10:35 AM

:angry:
Recently I had FCE done after this test My back pain was worst I did state this in the from the Mr Sellers gave me to fill in 2 day after the test. Yet in his report to ACC he told them that i reported the pain had decresaed and should be able to return to work as a bus driver. I would like to know how he got this as I can oly sit for 3- 4 min's at atime.

So anyone esle as had the same problem.
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#2 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 11:07 AM

You need to ask yourself if ACC procured a document for their own financial advantage.

You need to ask yourself if a document containing false information was produced for financial advantage.

You need to ask whether or not there was an intention by one or more people to to deprive yourself pecuniary advantage by way of a false document.

I need to ask yourself whether or not there was a willingness to correct wrong information or whether persons other than yourself standing to benefit from the production of the wrong documentation had a direct and tension to rely upon wrong information for pecuniary advantage.

These are the ingredients necessary to bring about a fraud prosecution.
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#3 User is offline   freefallnz 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 11:48 AM

IMHO you need to get a copy of the file from Mr Sellers including your feedback..

Then follow in huggys footsteps and complain via the OCI
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#4 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 12:32 PM

The ACC complaints officer has orchestrated themselves to move it very very slowly. Perhaps the ACC has not devoted enough resources to assist them in this endeavour.

In the meantime occupational and medical assessment is will roll on unopposed towards a decision which not opposed will result in a decision that you might be fearing necessitating a review of decision, at which time the complaints office will lose interest stating that the matter should be resolved by the reviewer. By the reviewer nor district court judge can rule against information produced by the occuppational or medical assessor's except in very rare cases.

It is sad to see that some of the members do not understand the ACC stratagem.
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#5 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 01:02 PM

Try not to up set your case manager and get your Dr to orginise an report from the specialist as to what caused the increase in pain.

It won't upset your case manager but more than likely kill any use to Mr sellers report.
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#6 User is offline   Fighter for Justice 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 01:44 PM

Brucie, in future when giving ACC (or any assessors) ANY WRITTEN INFORMATION - get a photocopy of the information, and get ACC (assessors etc) to sign, stamp (ACC stamp) and date your copy.
Many claimants do this as a precaution. I would urgently ask both the assessor and ACC for all the information relating to your situation and probably lay complaints. Urgently request in writing a full copy of all your ACC files, requiring to know if anything withheld. Ask for reasons for any withholding of information and the grounds supporting the reasons. This should help you with information regarding this matter.
Finally, did you tape the appointment you had? Taking a support person to all ACC directed appointments and tape recording all appointments/discussions etc is a good idea. Deal only in writing with ACC - in order to protect yourself.
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#7 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 02:19 PM

Brucie, your problem is that you SIGNED A WAIVER when you first attended the FCE>
I know of others who refused to sign and were thrown off, also others who wrote" under duress" and the FCE guy told ACC and they too were chucked off and that was it.

In my opinion, YOU MUST GET URGENTLY TO GP TELL HIM THAT YOU HAVE SUSTAINED ANOTHER INJURY FROM FCE, GET AN ACC 45 PUT THRU AS AN ASSESSMENT INJURY. THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT

You can attach a letter explaining what happened and how the Sellers guy was told by you about your back.Also, make sure the GP has the full history on your file and gove him a copy of your letter as well. More info the better.If it is serious, get a referral to your specialist urgently as well.
Everyone MUST complain and ACC have to be told about these shonky Money making deals they have with the FCE guys.
An eminent pain specialist has described FCE as "Rubbish."

Also find out what info was sent from ACC to this person and it could well be that the CM never gave him full details of your case.

Then file a complaint and make it urgent to OCI.

FCE is utter rubbish, doesnt prove a thing except injure people and then ACC will say there is nothing wrong.

NEVER GO TO A FCE OR ANY OTHER ASSESSMENT TILL ACC HAS SENT YOU COPIES OF WHAT THEY HAVE SENT TO THE ASSESSOR, FCE OR WHOEVER.
ALSO INFORM THE FCE PERSON THAT YOU WILL NOT BE BENDING LIFTING ETC.
ALSO ALWAYS MAKE SURE YOUR RESTRICTIONS ARE ON YOUR IRP. Had yours been on IRP you could have shown it to this jerk and he would have been doing a crim act if he forced you against all your restrictions.....

BRUCE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, THE FCE OPERATOR IS NOT AUTHORISED TO TELL ACC OR ANYONE YOU ARE FIT TO RETURN TO WORK. THAT IS THE JOB OF GP AN D SPECIALIST. THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND THIS...
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#8 User is offline   MG 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 02:23 PM

The point of FCEs is to provide ACC with evidence that claimants are malingering or exaggerating the extent of their injuries. Mr Sellars himself told a conference of insurers and their hangers on in Australia a few years ago that he beleives about 50 percent of all those claiming disability benefits are in one of those two categories. Ruth Dyson issued press statements attacking the reliability of FCEs when she was in opposition but appeared to condone them when she was the Minister. I believe that claimants threatened with FCEs (and deprivation of entitlements if they don't attend and participate) should: (1) lodge Code complaints against both Sellars and ACC case manager; (2) see their local MP personally to complain about ACC/Sellars (don't be fobbed off with a phone call to the secretary); (3) contact local media to report they are being bullied. OTOH, ACC offers some really good pain management programmes that I think are much better at telling everyone (ACC, claimant, doctors, etc) precisely how much claimants are affected by their personal injuries than Mr Sellars' carriage on the ACC gravy train does.
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#9 User is offline   Tattoo 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 02:41 PM

View PostMG, on May 12 2009, 02:23 PM, said:

Mr Sellars himself told a conference of insurers and their hangers on in Australia a few years ago that he beleives about 50 percent of all those claiming disability benefits are in one of those two categories.


That is what I would tell insurers if I was an FCE assessor. Of course, I would also impress on them that the FCE was a reliable tool to exit these claimants. Hmmm, a lot of money to be made for being a physio that doesn't have to provide any treatment. ;)
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#10 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 03:00 PM

Why are we concerned what a medically unqualified person thinks? The information produced by FCE has nno actual meaning in law. ACC may only make a determination regarding entitlements ultimately from a medical professional authorised by the ACC act to provide information for that purpose.

Obviously anyy report produced by FCE may go through to a medical professional for consideration but it can go no further than that.

An unqualified person, in law, producing a document for the purposes of the ACC pecuniary advantage of course is on a very slippery slope leading toward a jail cell if they make statements of fact that I am not true. In addition any person, authorised by legislation, who relies upon that information without actual verification to the standards of the qualification, that the information is true, becomes complicit in the crime related to the false document.
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#11 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 03:37 PM

You go get em Tomo!!!

Wont be in my lifetime, I bet!!!

Mini
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#12 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 03:54 PM

mini I went to the ACC contracted FCE assessor myself without the ACC knowledge after they accused me of having been working. The FCE confirmed that I did not have a capacity to work at all. Somehow the ACC lost the report.
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#13 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 04:00 PM

Thommo

Why didnt you have a copy. Nobody gives ACC original of anything unless it is their own assessor.
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#14 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 04:55 PM

And sparrow good points you have there .

As this is meant to be part of the vocational rehabilitation, you claim was lodged under the 2001 act, you have a work related claim, also inform your employer that due to the ACC sending you to an FCE the condition has deteriorated which the employer has accepted is the approximate rehabilitation.

Looks like that the National goverment is going to allow the casemanagement team to use anything except the legislation to remove entitlements.
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#15 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 12:18 AM

Tomo you are all up the creek with your advice and posts.
I do not believe any person would or could do an FCE on their own bat.
Medical professionals ar enot interested in FCE's unless they are the Turners, Du Plsesis's of this world.
Get real man.
Brucie I hope you take good advice and can sift out the chaff that appears on here from time to time.
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#16 User is offline   scared 

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 11:43 AM

Latest IRP says in regards to FCE
Activity: Functional capacity evaluation
What I would like to achieve from this: Assessment of ability to safely sustain physical performance in response to a range
of physical demands.
Date started / referred: 27/01/2009 To be achieved by: 26/10/2009"
Cover letter states..
FUNCTIONAL CAPACITY EVALUATION
This is an assessment of a person’s ability to reliably and safely sustain physical performance in
response to a range of physical demands.
Please note that as you are receiving weekly compensation, you are obliged to undergo an
assessment when ACC asks you to do so. ACC is able to decline to pay weekly compensation if
a person unreasonably refuses to take part in these assessments, or otherwise does not attend
assessments. It is considered appropriate for assessments and or treatment to be undertaken
concurrently.

Hmmmm, here we go again :-( We did not make it up with CM 's help, just told to sign - off to see GP and see waht we can do
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#17 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 01:06 PM

well scared a good one is to get the person that is responsible for the FCE is to sign a declaration that the Corporation has informed the assessor of all of the injuries and incapacity's.

Any deterioration or new injuries will be the personal responsibility of the assessor and must have a current insurance cover to carry out the assessment.

tell them that the assessment that they are carrying out will not reduce the extent of any impairment, disability, or handicap or lead to the reduction of the extent of any impairment, disability, or handicap

you can review the IRP if you are not satified.

9 Disputes about plan
(1) For the purposes of Part 5 of this Act, the Corporation makes
a decision when—
(a) the claimant agrees to a plan; or
(B) the Corporation advises the claimant that a plan has
been finalised.
(2) The fact that a claimant has agreed to a plan does not affect his
or her rights to make a review application under Part 5 of this
Act with respect to the plan.
Compare: 1998 No 114 Schedule 1 cl 34

and remember to this part

10 Corporation and claimant may agree to modify plan
The claimant and the Corporation may agree to modify the
plan from time to time, and clauses 7 to 9 apply to the process
of modification and to the modified plan.
Compare: 1998 No 114 Schedule 1 cl 35

If you don't agree to the modified plan then also the Corporation can not modify the plan. If anyone wants to argue on this point better have a very good and sound arguement.
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#18 User is offline   scared 

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 02:15 PM

Thank-You. I guess I am going to have to get some sort of video camera too, as the lst time he went to see someone he ended up in alot of pain becasue of how rough the dr was :-(
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#19 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 04:37 PM

Hi Scared.
It seems ACC will now try anything to kick people off. They are desperate to reduce the long term claimants and will stop at nothing. This letter you got is HARASSMENT and you MUST complain to ACC complaints. If everyone complained then there would be a change perhaps.
Claim under the code, you have "the right to be treated with dignity an d respect and you have the right to be informed".

Also get th e GP to sign a list of restrictions and tell the FCE turkey that he wont be doing ANY of those things he is restricted from doing.
Also dont sign the waiver they put under your nose. But be careful as some have been cut off.
Sign it "under duress" and also put that they will be liable if any injury occurs.
Time to let em start backing off.
I am so sorry after all you have been thru!!!

An IRP is for hubby, not ACC.
If you dont agree with anything on it, CROSS IT OFF and send it back.
So cross off FCE!!!!!!!
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#20 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 08:46 PM

Sparrow now from experance in dealing with ACC and the reason that the FCE are obtained is that the freindly IMA has written in there report that the claimant claims that they can not do the activities in each of the employments.

the assessor asked the question can you do that occupation. Your answer was no. you did not say that you could not complete all of the occupation

Now not sure what is your Hubby injury but you need to look at the wording of the IMA. Make sure that the IMA gives the reason correctly in the medical assessment so that the FCE us usless.

Sparrow you are correct as section 72 shows that is the responcability of the claimant to undertake these assessments.

Just remember that the FCE is to show that the injured person is a lair. The injured person can complete tasks that is written in the medical assessment saying that the injured person is claiming that they are unable to carry out the activitied with in the job sheets.

It is not too late to correct the medical assessment, but you can not correct the opinion of the madical assessor. Its a point of the assessor asking the right questions to obtain the correct answers. Assessors asking the wrong questions will not obtain an accurate report but then ACC legal Service will not be able to use that in court to deny the entitlements. Correcting the information will show that the Corporation employed a toady to obtain the out come required to increase the case managers remuneration.
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