ACCforum: IOA AND IMA REFERRAL (FOR VOCATIONAL REHABILITATION) - ACCforum

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IOA AND IMA REFERRAL (FOR VOCATIONAL REHABILITATION) OCCUPATIONAL + MEDICAL ASSESSOR RECOMMENDATIONS

#1 User is offline   Fighter for Justice 

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 11:36 AM

ACC are sending me for an Initial Occupational Assessment and Initial Medical Assessment for the second time. By Black Friday 13 March I must state who I wish to see.

I have previously seen Dr Turner! and Dr Keith Murray!.
Dr Turner's Report to ACC resulted in my ERC being cut. On appeal reinstated July 2008.

My last ACC Medical Report by Specialist said I am not fit to work 35 hours per week at old job (or anything else) - this was done mid 2006.

ACC have deemed my IRP (outcome back to work), which include IOA and IMA - with vocational rehabilitation following.

ACC are also threatening to cut my ERC if I do not sign ACC167 very soon as well.

I urgently need recommendations for Occupational and Medical Assessors.
I have previously got good Medical Reports from Rheumatologists.
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#2 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 01:04 PM

I attended a medical assessment yesterday with a claimant. The medical assessor had no work task activity information of any description and further had no medical information. The medical assessor simply carried out a pain assessment examination and decclared that as the claimant was not in very much pain she could return to work without regard to the damaged physical structures because the pain and she does work. Obviously the claimant would not been much pain that she had not been Following the doctors instructions by not working which was the cause of the pain as described by the medical reports giving to the entitlement in the first place.
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#3 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 01:37 PM

Mr Thomas with all your wealth of EXPERIENCE on Advocacy, I would have thought that you would have taken along all the relevant details and facts and stood up for this person.

This is just typical of your shonky advice and I am sorry for this person who has now been shafted because of you.
Anyway your posting is irrelevant to this thread.

Your post is illiterate and very hard to understand. Perhaps you are needing some new software?
Try ACC
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#4 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 01:39 PM

View PostFighter for Justice, on Mar 11 2009, 12:36 PM, said:

ACC are sending me for an Initial Occupational Assessment and Initial Medical Assessment for the second time. By Black Friday 13 March I must state who I wish to see.

I have previously seen Dr Turner! and Dr Keith Murray!.
Dr Turner's Report to ACC resulted in my ERC being cut. On appeal reinstated July 2008.

My last ACC Medical Report by Specialist said I am not fit to work 35 hours per week at old job (or anything else) - this was done mid 2006.

ACC have deemed my IRP (outcome back to work), which include IOA and IMA - with vocational rehabilitation following.

ACC are also threatening to cut my ERC if I do not sign ACC167 very soon as well.

I urgently need recommendations for Occupational and Medical Assessors.
I have previously got good Medical Reports from Rheumatologists.


Hi there Fighter.
There are many issues to deal with here and would be best if you could PM me your details of contact and I can ring you and hopefully assist. You are in need of an Advocate and further help.
You are at the stage where if you are not careful you will be exited.
I can also give you details of what to write in the #167
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#5 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 02:01 PM

View PostFighter for Justice, on Mar 11 2009, 12:36 PM, said:

ACC are sending me for an Initial Occupational Assessment and Initial Medical Assessment for the second time. By Black Friday 13 March I must state who I wish to see.

I have previously seen Dr Turner! and Dr Keith Murray!.
Dr Turner's Report to ACC resulted in my ERC being cut. On appeal reinstated July 2008.

My last ACC Medical Report by Specialist said I am not fit to work 35 hours per week at old job (or anything else) - this was done mid 2006.

ACC have deemed my IRP (outcome back to work), which include IOA and IMA - with vocational rehabilitation following.

ACC are also threatening to cut my ERC if I do not sign ACC167 very soon as well.

I urgently need recommendations for Occupational and Medical Assessors.
I have previously got good Medical Reports from Rheumatologists.


If they have deemed your IRP with IOA and IMA.....that is your fault for not rewriting the IRP in a manner that reflects your agreements.

NOt wanting to be blunt.....but I also change and rearrange my IRP to suit sign it and send it back. The first time I did this I took it to the dr and he cosigned that it was a reasonable IRP for me in my situation.

Get Proactive and take charge of your life/file/issues.

Use the IRP they sent you. white out what you don't agree with.....photocopy it. Write into the IRP what you want it to read, sign and date it....send it to your case manager with a letter stating you wish to update your IRP as according to the legislation it is to be updated from time to time. You can take the opportunity to write in the letter that as per the Medical Report by Specialist (name him/her) dated ??? said I am not fit to work 35 hours per week at old job (or anything else) You consider it reasonable to see that same Specialist again for an update to your current situation.

Be canny here....they hate to be accused of being unreasonable......but....they would have a hard time proving your request was unreasonable....so get in there and take charge of your life/file.

life/file isn't that interesting choice of word/letters?

Gloria






Gloria.
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#6 User is offline   Fighter for Justice 

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 10:13 AM

Regarding my IRP, I informed ACC in writing what I wanted on my IRP. ACC replied stating they could not yet agree to my requests. I did say I would put what I wanted on an IRP and send it in - but did not do so. ACC then Deemed my IRP (goal: Work and manage my life) - despite fact I have been on ACC for over 15 years.
ACC in their letter to me state that they do not expect me to be able to work for 35 hours per week at present - but would be looking to rehabilitate me to this level in the future.
My last specialist report (mid 2006) stated that I was unfit to work at my old job (or any job) for 35 hours per week and suggested University Studies to complete a Degree.
I leave you to ponder ACC's actions andstance.
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#7 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 10:23 AM

I hope you are reviewing this deemed IRP. Otherwise you are in trouble.
Also it would be good to get an updated Specialist report and you will need this when you go to Review.

As to the other troubles with #167, I suggest you still attach your addendum re being notified when ACC need information and do as Gloria suggests and say "signed under duress".
Good luck
Also Fairgo had good advice for you.
Was your IRP done in consultation with you and the GP? If not it does not meet the legislation.
It is really important to get all you need on it and include any Social Rehab you are requiring like home help etc.
You can include assistance with studies, ho hum!!
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#8 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 02:30 PM

I said to whiteout the wording in the IRP you have and photocopy it....this will give you a form to reword.
My doctor co-signed an IRP with me. They didn't like the IRP...but they didn't spit the dummy on it.

IPRC Act sect.78 Individual rehabilitation plan must be updated

An individual rehabilitation plan must be updated from time to
time to reflect the outcome of assessments done and progress
made under the plan.

If there have been no assessments done and or no progress made....what is their reason for updating the prior plan???

It could be considered unreasonable for a long term claimant to undergo assessments so soon after the last assessments especially as nothing has changed for you as is detailed in your med certs throughout this interveneing time.

THINK CAREFULLY ON THIS.

An IRP is considered to be a "legal document" according to them.

An IRP can be and must be updated from time to time to reflect etc as above. sect 78.

An IRP can be .................. updated from time to time.

Maybe the current (or deemed) IRP does not reflect your current situation and also needs to be updated. Be aware tho that if you include in that any requests you are back to assessments.

Maybe as Sparrow says....a review is the place to argue this.....if you have the wherewithall, the energy and patience to do it yourself or you can afford a lawyer/advocate.

Nothing ventured nothing gained....you can make the approach direct and reword an updated one.

When you are off work because of injury and relying on erc, it becomes your work to keep it until such time as you can replace it hopefully again with work.

No one wants to be cap in hand to acc forever, as others will tell you life is better without them in it.....but while you need their help......you have to work with them, hard as it can be.


Gloria.
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#9 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 03:31 PM

Hi Fighter.

Your IRP has to modify of when the situation changes. Of

In my opinion there is only two parts to the rehabilitation that is to maintain employment or be rehabilitated so that you can obtain employment. It is clear that your Dr. and specialist of thing that you can be rehabilitated so that you can obtain different employment then what you had your accident in. This can be seen in that they suggest a university education as this will then be able to put you into an occupation in employment in which your injury does not affect you as much as dead in your free the injury employment.

You must consider your age when asking for a university education and remember that the corporation is only liable for three years. If you employed and it is or work related accidents then you will find that you'll need to get your employer's permission so that they pay for your vocational rehabilitation.

To obtain vocational rehabilitation especially training at university level his can be a large uphill battle. Not only does of the corporation usually refuse university education because the to date of the management at the corporation head of office do not think it is economical especially as you are already able to do selected work you should be able to have delete a small wage and then be paid compensation for the rest of your life.

Completing an IRP in todays situation is not straightforward as there are several sections of the Acts that you need to look at it for doing it. Your case manager is only looking at seeing if you are fit to carry out any employment for 35 hours a week.

You need to fill in your your IRP and send it back and if the corporation is not happy with that and deem it, then I would suggest that you put a review in now you had your IRP corrected. You may have to go to the high court to have that rehabilitation is so that you can obtain employment as the outcome of your IRP.
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#10 User is offline   Fighter for Justice 

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 04:12 PM

Doppelganger, just to clarify - I am not fit for selected work. I am totally unfit for any work (including old job). I have been on ACC for more than 15 years. You state that ACC cannot pay for more than three years vocational rehabilitation (including university study).
This is totally incorrect. ACC can now pay for more than three years vocational rehabilitation (including university study) since approx October 2008 (when amendments to ACC Act occurred).
I believe ACC are just using my Deemed IRP (including IOA and IMA) as an exit tool - as last time I raised the issue of university study and social rehabilitation I was sent to Dr Turner!.
ACC have never paid for any social or vocational rehabiitation for me ever.
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#11 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 04:42 PM

section 87 subsection 2 is
(2) The corporation must provide the vocational rehabilitation for
the minimum period necessary to achieve its purpose, but must
not provide any vocational rehabilitation for longer than 3
years (which need not be consecutive).

it was 2 years before that.

in the above post you requested from ACC university education as part of your Vocational rehabilitation. A question I ask you. What would be the point in supplying vocational Rehabilitation when you do not have the ability to carry out any work with retraining?

To receive Vocational Rehabilitation you must have the ability to carry out tasks in employment that will result in you receiving an income.

You need to sort out the level of your incapacity. until then the legislation requires you to undergo Vocational Independence assessments to check that you are entitled to Compensation because you do not have the ability to work for 35 hours a week.

most fraud cases are because injured people claim that they can not do any work when infact they can do selected work. If the injured can not do selected work then there is no Vocational rehabilitation and you will be completing intial assessments in occupational and medical as the start of the Vocational independence and KPI for the case manager.
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#12 User is offline   Fighter for Justice 

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 10:05 AM

Doppelganger, you are wrong about the length of time ACC can pay for Vocational Rehabilitation including university study etc. You quote Section 87 (2) of IPRC Act 2001. BUT Section 87 (2) was amended recently - see IPRC Amendment Act 2008 Section 16 amending Section 87 (2).

The main change is Section 87 (2B): Despite subsection (2), the Corporation may, at its discretion, provide vocational rehabilitation for longer than 3 years if the Corporation considers that - (a) The vocational rehabilitaiton would be likely to achieve its purpose under the claimant's individual rehabilitation plan; and (B) the vocational rehabilitation woud be likely to be cost-effective, having rehard to the likelihood that costs of entitlements under this Act will be reduced as a result of the provision of vocational rehabilitation; and © the vocational rehabilitation would be appropriate in the circumstances.

The other change is that ACC cannot take into account that claimant is or may become eligible for New Zealand Superannuation when deciding whether or not to provide vocational rehabilitaion.

The ACC Act and all amendments to it can be bought at Bennetts (in Whitcoulls Cashel Street. I have the main IPRC Act 2001 reprinted as at 22 May 2006), IPRC (Social Assistnce) Amendment Act 2008, IPRC Amendment Act 2008 and IPRC Amendment Act 2007). Cost approx $30- $40.

Finally, ACC can pay for vocational rehabilitation for more than three years (See new Section 16 of IPRC Amendment Act 2008 - which amends Section 87 (2) of the IPRC Act.
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#13 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:14 PM

you are saying that you can not do any work and that includes sedentary work.

Your Doctor says that you should go and study at university. I'm glad that you placed the section on here and you would know that Vocational rehabilitation has to be cost efficient. If you are not going to have any earnings after finishing university explain how it is going to be cost efficient for ACC to supply Vocational Rehabilitation with out any return.

you sound like some one that told me that I should apply for to become an airline pilot because I could sit only for a few hours at a time. Age would have prevented me earning after becoming qualified.
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#14 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 02:45 PM

Fighter for justice, not all advice on here is timely, in fact some is insulting.
Keep up the good work an d I wish you luck.
Make sure your IRP is up to date and that you have yourself covered in that respect.You can ask at any time, as Gloria has said for it to be updated. Remember, it is a plan for YOU and not ACC !!

If your GP or specialist have said you are not fit for full time work, then go with that. But it is advisable to get an updated Specialist report, I can t stress that enough. Also make sure that GP refers you, not ACC and go to the one of your choice.
If you can cope with Univesity, so be it if you dont get a job. At least you are seen to be trying which is more than some others on here are doing.

Good luck and it seems you know the legislation pretty well, good for you.
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#15 User is offline   Fighter for Justice 

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 10:15 AM

ADVICE URGENTLY NEEDED: ACC putting me through Vocational Rehabilitation (to achieve return to work goal) on a Deemed IRP. Deemed IRP will be reviewed. In February ACC asked who I wanted to see for IMA. Given choice of 16 Medical Assessors and chose Dr David Kerr (informing ACC I was choosing under duress).
ACC now saying: "ACC aware of reports from Dr ?? saying not fit for 35 hours or more work per week. The IMA REQUIRED TO CONSIDER YOUR ABILITY TO SUSTAIN WORK TYPES TO BE IDENTIFIED IN IOA FOR PURPOSES OF VOCATIONAL REHABILITATION. THE IMA can also identify appropriate rehabilitation to enable you to increase your ability to work and achieve a goal of return to work in the future. At end of Vocational Rehabilitation, ACC may consider assessing you for Vocational Independence. At this stage the test of capacity to work 35 hours or more per week is applied. As Vocational Rehabilitation has yet to start, it is not appropriate for ACC at this point in time to consider the Vocational Independence Process."
ACC accepted my choice for IOA. But: "however, after giving careful consideration, ACC will not be referring you to Dr David Kerr, as we feel you should be seen by an Occupational Physician, who is better qualified to assess your personal injury, chronic pain and work fitness.
Attached is a list of Occupational Physicians for you to provide ACC with your choice for IMA. Acc's preference for Occupational Physician is purely for purposes of rehabilitaiton.
Return your choice for IMA assessor by 15 May 2009 ..."

Choices for IMA now include: Michael Antoniadis, Dr Mary Obele (works for ACC as BMA/does Comprehensive Pain Assessments for Enableworks), Dr Martin Robb, Dr Chris Strack, Dr Robert Blackmore, Dr WED Turner".


Can ACC limit my choice of IMA (made under duress) under Deemed IRP AND CAN ACC make me attend IOA/IMA? ACC state need complex IOA/IMA/SOCIAL in order for them to consider approving University - is this correct? Obviously ACC, are planning to exit me again - less than 1 year after winning ERC back at appeal.
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#16 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 12:16 PM

Dr Kerr has the same status as Strack Blackmore etc. YOu can insist that you see Kerr as he is on their list of assessors. It would appear that they are using VIA and these listed toadies are their favoured for VIA.
YOu badly need the advice of an Advocate an d I think you may be aware of a very good one.
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#17 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 12:32 PM

well I would have though that you would have learned from the last time of being Exited.

by Returning your ERC your resopncability is to orginise your own rehabilitation and not ACC job to carry out the orginisation.

ACC saw you as some one that didn't want to do anything and still does so a new round of assessments to see if you are Vocational Independent.

Put up the document showing that you requested Vocational Rehabilitation and there decision to refuse Vocational Rehabilitation.

Again you are going on about something that is not going to be cost effective. this ios because there will be no employment after any training.

Your Deemed IRP stands until after the decision or IRP is squashed. Refer to section 133. ACC do not have to wait until after the review decision.

If you can not work how did ACC obtain enough information to show that you can and exit you because you just don't want to work.

I can see that your IOA does not have earning details on so that ACC can not see the difference in the earnings between jobs. I will give you some advice. ACC has instructed it assessors not to up skill injured persons and any Vocational Rehabilitation must be completed with in six weeks.

there is lots of ways to beat the ACC policies but you are going to have to learn that the case manager is only interested in increasing their income by removing entitlements mainly your ERC.

First you need to have a medical certificate stateing that you can do selective work in other employment that the employment that you had your accident in.

If you find selective work and not for 35 hours per week then make sure that its your injury that is stopping you from carrying out more hours.

If you want to go to university make sure that its in your IRP. your reason as after rehabilitation is that you will have the prospect to earn more and have a better quality of life than before the rehabilitation.

Don't sit on your arse and do nothing.

No new IRP in the hands of ACC means that you don't want Vocational Rehabilitation as it is not in the plan.

make sure that the injury is correctly written on the IRP. Do not use terms like back sprain, shouklder injury knee injury. You need the discription og the injury. Pain is not an injury. pain is the result of an injury. the more pain the greater the injury. this is the most common fault in the Corporations IRP.
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#18 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 11:06 AM

Now since you have gots lots of threads on this subject and can not find you post on why you got your entitlements reinstated I can not follow on from there.

You want Rehabilitation by way of university. Good luck.

ACC on the other hand will say that you can work and therefore reduce the amount of compensation.

Rehabilitation has to be economical in the long term.

So ACC are looking at the number of employment that you could do. What is the potential of the earning capacity in the employment that ACC is saying that you can do. You also need referrals from the assessor to those employers.

your employment with the university education. What is your employment earning capacity and prospect of work?

ACC after collecting that information can then determine whether or not it is economical to supply University Education.

Who do you go to? you go back to the same assessors that did the first assessments. Why ? because they made the mistakes and didn't do it correctly. this will make them try to cover up there previous mistakes.

This also puts the case manager on the spot.

you have weight to request that the case manager does not send you to who ever the case manager has chosen. previously the case manager mislead the assessors with the injury. the case manager has been in contact with some one and you don't know whats been said. you don't know what has been asked of that assessor.

The case manager has been awarded a bonus to having you kicked off. This goes all the way to the Wellington. Basically it is fraud and should be put in the hands of the police.

Now if you gained cover under the 2001 Act it is your employer that has to pay for the Vocational Rehabilitation. If you are under the previous Act it is ACC that has to pay.

you must remember that ACC want documentation to show that you do not want to work. they use the assessors to gain that information when you can use the assessors to gain that the Corporation only want to carry out assessments to gain information that you do not want to work so that you can be exited.
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#19 User is offline   Fighter for Justice 

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 11:39 AM

Doppelganger, I started 3 new threads yesterday in: Assessments, IOA, and IMA. I posted yesterday on original Thread in: VIMA.
I am under the 1982 Act. Dec 2003 IOA done. Mid 2004 IMA done by Dr Keith Murray. In November 2004 assessed by Dr Turner! at ACC's insistence. ERC cut very early 2005. ERC reinstated on Appeal in June/July 2008.
Am I correct in thinking I should see one of these two Doctors for the next IMA?
(See my 3 new threads yesterday + one posting on existing thread).
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#20 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 12:02 PM

Dopel. You are talking a load of bollocks as usual.
how about looking at your own case I believe you are still unemployed after a number of years, Why??
Well, for the same reason , others too are unfit for work. you cannot stand as judge and ACC advocate. and start saying that they do not want to work.
Get back to reality and stop giving shonky advice. you have a damn cheek actually!
Time you also realised that your comments about people not wanting to work are harmful, devious and seriously flawed and insulting.
get your act together and stop this nonsence. since when were you qualified to say all this crap??
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