[Jack]

Is a Rehab plan with no rehab legal ?

All I have on rehab plan is Occupational Assessment, and a Medical Assessment to follow, part of their standard 3 step exit plan I believe, please correct me if I am wrong here.

The last treatment I receieved from ACC, was a rubber ball and a rubber band from the physio in late 2002

Wasnt there some court case where the judge said a rehab plan with rehab was not correct/legal ?

[Sparrow]

I hope you have not signed this illegal rehab plan??
If you have, ask to have it updated. Take it along to your GP and work with him/her on what is needed for your recovery and treatment.
ACC do not provide treatment themselves,, it is up to the GP or specialist or yourself to partake in any treatment.
So see my comments on your other thread as this is a really important issue. the CM should be censored for preparing an IRP like this, but they get away with it!!
Exit an d KPI's are in the CM mind here only.; they get rewarded for the IRP's they draw up and it is not their plan, but it is a plan for YOUR recovery and treatment,.

Get a copy of th e legislation from Bennets bookstore and read it for yourself, there is a lot in it about IRP's, entitlements etc!! You will be surprised. ACC do not ever tell you about your entitlements.
You can also get the review of your condition by a Specialist of YOUR CHOICE also into the plan.
Go for it

[fairgo]

Can you please send a copy of your IRP which contains only assessments to me directly please at [email protected] as I would like to table this at the COG meeting on Tuesday.

Thanks
Denise

[Not Waddie]

Your IRP should contain the assessments to be undertaken. the IRP should be updated to reflect the outcome of the assessment, identify all the services you require and those that ACC consider it is liable to fund (after you and your treating medical practitioners have had an opportunity to participate).

The assessments are not vocational rehabilitation as such therefore do not require your agreement. The legislation provides for ACC to require assessments and you have an obligation to attend when reasonably requested to do so.



My experience is that ACC seek agreement to an update of the IRP (as opposed to a modification that requires agreement) and this is really an administrative requirement as opposed to a legislative one.

The real planning (of any significance) and agreement of the IRP will begin once the assessments (IOA, IMA) have been completed.

If you don't sign it, ACC will finalise the plan (as if agreed to) and carry out the assessments anyway. If you refuse to attend the assessment then chances are ACC will make it a compliance issue linked to suspending weekly compensation.

Once the IRP has been finalised or deemed it becomes a reviewable decision. If it does become an issue I suggest mediation as a good why to resolve it. As always, I think it pays to have an experienced representative involved. ACC will contribute to the cost of representation at mediation but not in preparing the IRP.

Jack, the above is based on my experience and knowledge of the legislation. I can refer to the relevant parts of the legislation supporting the above if required. I find that at some point a claimant has to make a stand. It sometimes a matter of when is the right time to do it. Whatever you decide to do with the IRP is up to you but hopefully my post has been helpful in understanding the process. If there is something you are not happy with for medical reasons then I suggest you consult your GP with the view to getting a letter to support your position.

[magnacarta]

Not Waddie, in relation to needs assessment being administrative steps and not subject to review, the latest decision from the High Court on that is in Buis v ACC HC Auckland CIV 2007-404-004703, judgment dated 2 April 2008 Andrews J brings your point on issue.

Her Honour said that the inferences taken by Judge Cadenhead in Smith, from Weir v ACC in the High Court may be reasonable but it does not assist in determining in any individual case whether a decision is an "administrative step" or a "decision as to an entitlement."

Most importantly, Her Honour went on to say at [36] "I am not persuaded that the decisions were wholly "administrative steps" such that they could not be said to be in respect of Mr Buis' entitlement to weekly compensation. As was said in Weir v ACC, the decisions.........were made in the context of Mr Buis' continuing claim for cover and weekly compensation" (my addition - also rehab)

Therefore, it can sensibly be argued that a reviewable "decision" has been made when a claimant is required to attend an IOA because it is made in the context of the claimants continuing claim for cover and rehabilitation and/or the level of rehab.

Obviously, there could be all sorts of valid and justifiable reasons why a claimant should not be undergoing an IOA at that point - not least that an IOA does not assess a claimants vocational rehabilitation needs - only the jobs that may be appropriate (logically and rationally following the assessment of needs in order to get to those jobs). The phrase in s.89 "consist of" implies there is something more than just the IOA.

This decision in Buis v ACC [2008] and a correct reading of Weir v ACC [2004] (both in the High Court) brings into question the findings in Print, Millin, Henderson and Smith in the District Court that "administrative steps" are not to be subject to review.

The issue now is that it can be sensibly argued that s.77 needs assessments are not "wholly administrative steps" but a "decision as to an entitlement" and are capable of review and appeal.

[Not Waddie]

Magnacarta, I take your point. My post about this was more to do with ACC seeking agreement to the IRP when it only contains assessments that assists in the preparation of the IRP prior to ACC seeking agreement and then implementing the plan (if the legislation was followed as I interpret it).

Certainly it could be argued that carrying out an IOA and IMA comes into the realm of a reviewable decision. However, a claimant would need to be prepared to go without weekly compensation, if ACC made it a compliance issue (I'm thinking LTCU tactics here), while the matter went to review, with the risk not having weekly comp backdated if they lost a review then subsequently complied.

Usually when I explain that to a claimant they choose to attend the assessments then deal with the IRP put to them for agreement after that. At the end of the day the claimant must decide what is best for them.

[Not Waddie]

NoDRSL
treatment is something that the GP manages.
The IRP relates to soc and voc rehab. But that is why the treating medical practitioners are suppose to be given an opportunity to be involved in the preparation of the IRP, which is required if the claimant is likely to require entitlements after 13 weeks. It does all fit into together if the legislation is followed.

[fairgo]

Still waiting for a copy of this IRP so I can table it at COG.....

[doppelganger]

Jack I been away for a few days but whats the purpose of the IRP.

(a)maintain employment; or

(b)obtain employment; or

©regain or acquire vocational independence.

this is important as this guides the out come of the assessments.

(think that treatment is a option that can be in the IRP or not in the IRP.

there is no Vocational Rehabilitation under (c ) but there is the option that you may get a six week coarse to become nothing.

[flowers]

Jack, on Apr 10 2008, 05:02 PM, said:

Is a Rehab plan with no rehab legal ?

All I have on rehab plan is Occupational Assessment, and a Medical Assessment to follow, part of their standard 3 step exit plan I believe, please correct me if I am wrong here.

The last treatment I receieved from ACC, was a rubber ball and a rubber band from the physio in late 2002

Wasnt there some court case where the judge said a rehab plan with rehab was not correct/legal ?

Soundslike a cobweb duster I aquired as a housekeeper about 2002 stile lives here along with compliments slip from a fellow names Sinclair of Team Mc Millan of whome the overseas case manager Barbra Millar is a member!

Where does the Ball stop?
Branch Manager?
general Manager.
Operations Manager?
CEO?
Cairman and board?
The Minister's; penultimate and current?
OR Higher?

[doppelganger]

Jack remember if you do nothing the Case manger will deam the IRP as saying that you require nothing.

Treatment is provided through you GP.

Vocational rehabilitation is provided through ACC. Put on the IRP in big letters "Obtain employment"

Treatment does not need to be on your IRP but it is adviseable in most cases.

[MG]

If you don't like what's in the IRP, don't sign it. If ACC decides to "deem" it, lodge an application for review and ask for mediation if you think ACC will negotiate in good faith. If you don't think they will, proceed to review and on to the District Court. Keep your GP involved and instruct them not to talk to ACC without your prior permission. Get an advocate or a lawyer to help you with review/mediation/appeal as appropriate. Providing the maximum practicable amount of rehabilitation is supposed to be ACC's primary duty - this is what your representatives in Parliament have told it to do. All too often, ACC thumbs its nose at Parliament, the law, and the needs of injured people and simply does what ever it wants. This is why case managers up and down the country are telling claimants, on a daily basis, that ACC doesn't "do" rehabilitation, while any any attempt to challenge at review or appeal will fail, because the reviewers and Judges are told to decide in ACC's favour, and the claimant will be punished by ACC for challenging it. IMHO, the only way to deal with these abuses of power is to stand up for yourselves. Tell everyone you know whenever you experience this type of treatment, together with the news media. Stand up for your rights of review and appeal, but be prepared to mediate if ACC is willing to act in good faith. In mediation, don't give your rights away and question ACC's bullshit when it starts telling you why it won't rehabilitate you the way you want. If you don't get what you want, walk away from mediation and go to review/appeal as necessary.

[fairgo]

MG is right. If you don't like it , don't sign and then be prepared to back up your objections.

I am still more than happy to table this as an example of current practice not stacking up to what is supposed to be occuring..... please if you want me to assist with this send an email to [email protected]

[Jack]

quote name=['fairgo' date='Apr 25 2008, 03:58 PM' post='63063']
MG is right. If you don't like it , don't sign and then be prepared to back up your objections.

I am still more than happy to table this as an example of current practice not stacking up to what is supposed to be occuring..... please if you want me to assist with this send an email to [email protected]
[/quote]

I have blanked out personal details, there is no doubt ACC staff on this site. The following is the rehab plan I was sent and asked to sign, without talking to doctor or without any input, also without correct injury listed. who has a lumbar spain for 5 and half years ???? I beleive this was done to help with an easy exit for these crooks. I also included a letter from my Orthopaedic Surgeon asking ACC to provide rehab and retraining, of course ACC have done nothing but falsity payment and breaking the law by having a P.I. in my backyard (perhaps again just recently) and illegally scare and hassle my wife and daughters. Time to have a bat ready for these scumbags.

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[Jack]

Just got mail today ! , as i was finishing posting my falsitfy rehab plan on this forum. guess what is was ?

the same falsity rehab plan deemed !

[MINI]

Jack

I see from the paperwork that you have had the OIA, so ;you know what jobs the assessors thinks you have the skills to do or can be crosstrained to do from your work at time of accident.

I see you may not have had your IMA yet. If not you need to go armed with the reasons as to why you could not be expected to do the jobs they have listed. Ie lack of training etc or heavy lifting etc.

You also need to take this time to have your GP involved in your ability to return to the workforce. After all this is the person that signs your ACC form each three months, to allow you to keep on getting it.

I notice your Orthopedic assessor said that you could retrain for something lighter in 2005. What has happened to that ambition of yours?? Have you started any training towards it by yourself or from ACC point of view.

You can't expect ACC to do everything for you. You have to initiate some things yourself.

I have no idea how much I have spend on retraining myself, all to no avail, but at least it shows I was prepared to take the bull by the horns and have a go.

Seriously at this stage of you IRP, you need to be aware that you will get exited if you don't start doing something for yourself. So be prepared for it........................make sure your finances are in order to be able to survive on DPB or some sort of benefit. In the meantime get proactive and go armed with all the necessary information you need to be retrained in a lighter job or at least be able to advise the IMAssessor why you genuinely cannot do what they are expecting of you.

Your Dr needs to step in and have their say.

Good Luck
]
Mini

[MINI]

Deemed plan

But your time not up yet??? I don't understand.

[Jack]

MINI, on Apr 26 2008, 10:47 AM, said:

Jack

I see from the paperwork that you have had the OIA, so ;you know what jobs the assessors thinks you have the skills to do or can be crosstrained to do from your work at time of accident.

I see you may not have had your IMA yet. If not you need to go armed with the reasons as to why you could not be expected to do the jobs they have listed. Ie lack of training etc or heavy lifting etc.

You also need to take this time to have your GP involved in your ability to return to the workforce. After all this is the person that signs your ACC form each three months, to allow you to keep on getting it.

I notice your Orthopedic assessor said that you could retrain for something lighter in 2005. What has happened to that ambition of yours?? Have you started any training towards it by yourself or from ACC point of view.

You can't expect ACC to do everything for you. You have to initiate some things yourself.

I have no idea how much I have spend on retraining myself, all to no avail, but at least it shows I was prepared to take the bull by the horns and have a go.

Seriously at this stage of you IRP, you need to be aware that you will get exited if you don't start doing something for yourself. So be prepared for it........................make sure your finances are in order to be able to survive on DPB or some sort of benefit. In the meantime get proactive and go armed with all the necessary information you need to be retrained in a lighter job or at least be able to advise the IMAssessor why you genuinely cannot do what they are expecting of you.

Your Dr needs to step in and have their say.

Good Luck
]
Mini

I have no assessments since around oct 2002 by the infamous Dr Reekie ( if you are ever refered to this person , take a heavy bat and hit him really hard!!!), who reported I was healed and ACC kick me off 3 months later.

The Orthopedic assessor you regard to, is not an Orthopedic assessor. He is an Orthopedic Specialist who have 2 and half years fighting I got to see , to see what was happening with my back. He performed an MRI and disc-o-gram. He stated I had failed discs in my back. The letter he wrote was in hope that ACC would provide some rehab and retraining into work where a back injury would not be an issue. Previously my work was considered heavy labour.

I have yet to have any assessments in regard to this IRP

[Jack]

Over the last week, my back taken at turn for the worst, having trouble walking or even getting out of bed. I been to the doctors twice and hospital once over the space of 3 days. The Doctor injected by back with peth-a-dine, which provided some relief. The Doctor also contacted my specialist to arrange a check up to see whats happening. I have formally requested ACC cover cost of Specialist and any scans he wishes to do, and any treatment he suggests.

I believe these latest problem with my back are a direct result of ACC illegally failing to disclose and provide entitliments to treatment

In regard to a benefit, I cannt get any benefit as my partner works full time.

Interesting footnote: - my casemanager wrote to me in feb 2007 wanting a meeting to discuss my rehab. I wrote back saying that was great , i been waiting for years. but suprise suprise no further action on part of crooked case manager

[MINI]

I saw the letter head of the Orthopedic person. I just called him an assessor, cause that is exactly what he did and by golly gosh if you had a MRI scan as well. You have enough documentation to make a good fight of it.

You will have to get a Review together now that they have made a deemed decision, but I wouldnt mind betting they will say that their is no legit decision to Review as you have not done any of the assessments or signed the documents.

Sounds like it is too late to back peddle and go do their dammed assessments, so you will have to go forward on what you have now.

What a Puck up!!!

The orthopedic person did say you could go to the gym and be retrained so you have to wear that as your latest specialist report.

As I said previously good luck to you and your family and dont let that PI upset anyone. (That is if he is one)

Cheers
Mini