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Statutory Declarations Help needed please

#1

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 07:28 PM

I was under the impression that legally, a statutory declaration was to be in YOUR wording, not ACC's wording with "sign here, without making changes to the wording, or else" tactics? Providing it has the information sought, do ACC have the right to deem the document I provided as unacceptable and take out facts/pertaining information they do not like? <_<
I am aware of section 72 (2) and (3) of the act stating the statement provided as a statutory declaration or in a form supplied by the Corporation. I have nothing to hide but do not have experience with ACC Stat Decs & do not have allot of time to get this sorted. Yep you guessed it, threats at KPI time!
Would appreciate any comments and knowledge from those of you who have had experience with this requirement, and anything I should watch out for as my CM has proven themselves not to be trusted.
Have a great day everyone.
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#2 User is offline   Not Waddie 

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 07:40 PM

Depends what is says. If is the truth and relevant then it can't hurt. But if you have any doubts make an appointment to see a lawyer. Maybe MG can advise.
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#3 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 07:57 PM

Huggy had the same problems. Hope he is reading this and can advise you!
I would say that if they make you sign it, say that this is not your words and signed under duress and then they cant accept it!
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#4 User is offline   Chrissy 

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 07:58 PM

Contact Huggy he knows a lot about stat decs...I know how to reword the rubbish ones that ACC sends but that is about it!
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#5 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:06 PM

Generally speaking ACC will want to have a statutory declaration in place if they are carrying out a private investigation for purposes of fraud prosecution. I was provided with an ultimatum to provide a statue declaration or have my entitlements suspended. While having regard for all of the facts and obtaining legal advice I provided the following statutory declaration.

The ACC required quite a number of statue declarations over the years and given my circumstance is I took the precaution of asking the ACC what they mean by the word "work" in relation to a director of companies in my circumstance. Once that claim was cancelled ACC staff were instructed to provide no information whatsoever, probably in the hope that they could bluff their way through, which they did.

ACC entertain the idea of relying upon this attached declaration for the criminal prosecution in the same way they had done with Mrs Brown during this time period. The reason they could not prosecute on the basis of this document is because the statement was true. At the time of providing this declaration further reassurances were provided by the case manager over the "electronic telephonic instrument"!

She did state however, very very clearly over the electronic telephonic instrument, that no information needed to be reported beyond the statue declaration concerning any activities unless I generated earnings. I am now going through the process of seeking clarification as to the meaning of the word "work" as it applies to this document And ongoing ERC entitlements.

Obviously this case manager later committed perjury when claiming she knew nothing of the links I went to complying with her ultimatum to produce business plans and all of the other self rehabilitation activities over the years.

In the more severe circumstances it is always best to seek legal advice and supervision of these matters. Any issues that are not clear at best in writing and under no circumstances should a statutory declaration be signed unlessall outstanding issues are are properly resolved and in writing from the ACC. In my opinion it is better to allow entitlements to be temporarily suspended while the ACC clarify the meaning so as to prevent the possibility so as to prevent the worst possible scenario that I have endured.

Suspension is only temporary fraud creates permanent home in every aspect of life.

Attached File(s)


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#6 User is offline   Huggy 

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 09:10 PM

me0 my stat dec was full of incorrect information. I totally rewrit the stat dec questions and put my answers in, however the questions and answers i done i made sure i quoted that the questions and answers are not part of the statutory declaration. I then done a one page stat dec that basically stated i have not knowingly or intentionally defrauded the corporation.

Here is a quote i found from legal site in Australia

Definition of a statutory declaration is

About the Statutory Declaration

Most legal systems are based on being able to ascertain what is true. Often, the truth of something can only be discovered from available evidence.

A Statutory Declaration is a way of assisting in this discovery. It is a way of making a statement of fact, which gives the statement greater evidentiary weight than it might otherwise have. This is because you and others are aware that if you lie in a Statutory Declaration then you can face criminal charges.
A Statutory Declaration is a written statement, declared to be true by you the maker in the presence of a Commissioner for Declarations or the equivalent in your jurisdiction. Usually, the first and last parts of the statement are standard and are set out on the appropriate form, with the substantive parts in between to be composed by you.


I quoted this to ACC. The investigator tried to push suspending my entitlements however it looks like they may have been unable to. I provided them a 1 page stat dec and answers to their questions as a seperate document so therefore in my eyes provided them with all requested info.

Be very careful with the stat dec as they will try and entrap you. If in doubt contact a lawyer.

If you provide me an email addres via pm i can email you the original stat dec they sent and also the stat dec i done and returned to them for guidance purposes for you.

As i said be very careful how you answer the stat dec and make sure you answer so they cant determine a different meaning to your answer.

I had a couple of people help me with it......it took a lot of hours but in the end was absolutely brilliant, it certainly peed off acc, however after completion i took it to a lawyer to check over and get his approval before sending it off, i highly recommend getting an advocate or lawyer to check it over before sending it to acc.
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#7 User is offline   Hardwired 

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 09:46 PM

me0,
DO NOT LISTEN OR TALK TO ALAN THOMAS RE ANY ACC MATTERS ESPECILIALLY RE STAT DECS
He could not fill his own out without dropping himself in the poo and is still in the poo
TEN years later,do not trust this man with something as serious as a stat dec and to provide info on how to fill one out.
this is IMHOpinion.
the wording is interesting enough to raise doubts at the time.

not working or income for work carried out over the last years
*so what is work carried out
*were not game enough to state specific times/years

collecting and prepearing a plan to start a buisiness.
*one business. was actually a multiple of business plans
*one only and done properly and you may have been ok,
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#8 User is offline   Spacecadet 

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 06:08 AM

MeO
I confirm that you should follow the advice of Huggy and Hardwired on this one.
It is important you write the Statutory Declaration yourself, and a the bottom it states
"I confirm this statutory declaration to be true to the best of my knowledge and belief"
The confirms that what you said you believe is true, and like religion - sometime the facts may later turn out to be different, but that is what you believed so it is still true, so the statuary declaration is still true.
Huggy has done this successfully, I have done this successfully. Mr Thomas got jailed for his statutory declaration.
I suggest you follow the advice of those who have done this successfully.
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#9 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 11:22 AM

Hi Me0,

I gather that this is the statthat is usually sent out that you will inform ACC of everything.

there latest form is a form of entratment as pointed out above. These forms need to be modified to exclude social responcabilities been reported to the Cortporation as work activities. This means that if you are doing gardening, mowing the lawns, painting the house or washing the car there is no need to advise the Corporation every time that you carry out these activities.

you need to keep ACC informed of any activities that could be considered work and even when those activities have no earnings.

Watch the wording on the earnings, Make sure that you say that you either have had no earnings while on Compensation or have had earnings while on compensation which has been decleared.

Include any rehabilitation that you are awaiting whether social vocational or medical treatment. List your injuries if possible and the incapacity caused by the injuries covered or not covered.

there is probably other things that has been missed so some others might want to add to the list.
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#10 User is offline   Spacecadet 

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 11:56 AM

Meo
Follow this link
http://accforum.org/...showtopic=5092#
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#11 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 12:24 PM

Spacecadet whether or not your statutory declaration has been done successfully is yet to be determined by a court. My statutory declaration has been determined as being accurate by a seven-week trial. There was no prosecution made or relied upon the statutory declaration. If this was the case ACC would certainly have prosecuted and achieved a judgement. The reason why they did not prosecute as it would have undermined their allegations.

As can be seen by the file notes ACC certainly did seek to obtain a statutory declaration as a mechanism of entrapment.

ACC then went to the next level of declaration which is the Medical Certificate. The criminal convictions were achieved on the basis of the declaration that is in grey ink on the back of the third page of the medical certificates. Few if any body knew about this form of declaration which explains how Spacecadet became confused.

Doppelganger on my file is recorded my enquiries as to the meaning of the word work in relation to rehabilitation activities that had no earnings. ACC achieved a conviction on the basis of third party making observations of rehabilitation activities and the work permit and residency application of my beloved as if she was a customer. The technique is to bury real information and reconfigure same facts by way of a private investigator's perspective.

Actual earnings are not necessary for a statutory declaration to blow up in your face as it is only the task activity that could have generated earnings that matter.

Even though I was waiting for the reconstructive surgery awarded by the 1992 review hearing decision, which was binding upon the ACC, that did not serve to protect me, possibly due to ACC perjury and legal counsel incompetence. ACC are looking at conflicting information to the incapacities listed.

As you indicate the list of issues may very well be extensive.
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#12 User is offline   freefallnz 

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 02:58 PM

Check out the Oaths and Declarations Act 1957

Quote

9 Declarations made in New Zealand(1) A declaration made in New Zealand must be in the form in Schedule 1, and must be made before—

(a) a person enrolled as a barrister and solicitor of the High Court; or

(B) a Justice of the Peace; or

© a notary public; or

(ca) the Registrar or a Deputy Registrar of the Supreme Court; or

(d) the Registrar or a Deputy Registrar of the Court of Appeal; or

(e) a Registrar or Deputy Registrar of the High Court or a District Court; or

(f) some other person authorised by law to administer an oath; or

(g) a member of Parliament; or

(h) a person who—

(i) is a fellow of the body (incorporated under the Incorporated Societies Act 1908) that, immediately before the commencement of the Oaths and Declarations Amendment Act 2001, was called the New Zealand Institute of Legal Executives; and

(ii) is acting in the employment of the holder of a practising certificate as a barrister and solicitor of the High Court; or

(i) an employee of Land Transport New Zealand, authorised for that purpose (by name, or as the holder for the time being of a specified office or title) by the Minister of Justice by notice in the Gazette; or

(ia) an employee of Public Trust constituted under the Public Trust Act 2001, authorised for that purpose (by name, or as the holder for the time being of a specified office or title) by the Minister of Justice by notice in the Gazette; or.

(j) an officer in the service of the Crown, or of a local authority within the meaning of the Local Government Act 2002, authorised for that purpose (by name, or as the holder for the time being of a specified office or title) by the Minister of Justice by notice in the Gazette


And the format of schedule 1. Is basically...

Attached File  oath.gif (19.29K)
Number of downloads: 12

Your rights... ACC cannot compell you to sign any form which contains incorrect information

The statutory declaration must be signed in the presence of one of the above listed!

Follow Huggys and notwaddies advice.. Contact your lawyer!
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#13

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 03:10 PM

View PostHardwired, on Jan 15 2008, 09:46 PM, said:

me0,
DO NOT LISTEN OR TALK TO ALAN THOMAS RE ANY ACC MATTERS ESPECILIALLY RE STAT DECS


Thanks for that, but nahhh............I not that silly. I do not even bother to read any of them 99.999999% of the time.

Sparrow said: "I would say that if they make you sign it, say that this is not your words and signed under duress and then they cant accept it!" Does that mean can't accept it and still stop your ERC - or can't accept it and can't stop ERC if you provide them one in your wording??


Thank you sooooooo much everybody, very helpful as well as confirming my knowledge. The more I can finalize it before contacting a lawyer, the better in my eyes (cost wise). I appreciate it all & thanks Huggy I will take you up on that offer (& something I would like to show you) - when pain levels permit.

Keep smiling all and thanks again, appreciated :rolleyes:
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#14 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 06:06 PM

Facing the worst possible scenario a statutory declaration that I presented worked just fine. I took the opportunity to play the tape-recording of my giving a copy it to the private investigator in the weeks prior to the cancellation of my claim. I also provided the private investigator with the summary of my activities, business involvements and suchlike in open disclosure type manner. A private investigator wanted need to answer his questions in a yes or no fashion so as he could reconfigure information to his liking in an attempt to trip me up over this statutory declaration. The interrogation was abandoned.

After the ACC decided to cancel the claim anywaythey then realised thatthe statutory declaration was correct and wanted to interview me by the private investigator again almost three months after the cancellation still trying to get contrary information. the second interview with the PI did not reveal any contradiction to the statutory declaration and reconfirmed the information given to the reviewer 1992 and various case managers over the years and including the previous meeting with the PI.

Despite the robustness of the statutory declaration the ACC continued on in total disregard to that statement, even though it was correct. I was not prosecuted in relation to this statutory declaration as they had so obviously planned.

Speaking as somebody who has already gone through the very worst that ACC can do I would recommend that status decorations should never be signed without complete consultation with an ACC experienced lawyer who has had considerable experience with ACC fraud. If the ACC is asking for a statutory declaration it is generally because they are investigating ACC fraud and such matters should never be left up to the opinions of ACC enthusiasts, including myself, and ACC that advocates on this site. The consequences of mistake to serious and I properly qualified person may be able to nip matters in the bud.
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#15 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 07:17 PM

MeO
I suggest you stick to the advice given by Huggy. ACC are on a fishing expedition and will try and scare you into signing their lies.
So sign nothing produced by them and you really need help from an Advocate or lawyer.
However, I am sure Huggy will help you.
Any advice from Alan Thomas is guaranteed to land you in a heap of trouble. It did him, some time at Her MAjesty's pleasure!
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#16 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 06:53 PM

Sparrow rather than just criticise me personally been a general sort of way could you please describe in profit terms what you think might be actually wrong with the statutory declaration that I did sign. While your on-the-job do you think you could also describe what is wrong with the wording of the statutory declaration that is within the medical certificates which the ACC actually did rely on with a prosecution.

Remember ACC did not rely on my statutory declaration as you have suggested and as such I find your assertion not only actually wrong technically speaking but misleading others while also being somewhat offensive to me personally.

Again ACC relied upon the statutory declaration in the medical certificate to address your attention to the real issue and what is being relied upon for these prosecutions.
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#17 User is offline   Spacecadet 

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 07:10 PM

Mr Thomas is far to stupid to understand what is wrong with the statutory declaration written by him.
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#18 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 07:15 PM

Spacecadet if you think the lawyer who advised me what needs to be written in a statutory declaration was wrong perhaps you could explain why you think the lawyer is wrong. The ACC certainly tried to prosecute on the basis of the statutory declaration and so as far as I can see a lawyer who advised was quite correct in his advice.
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#19 User is offline   freshrain 

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 07:23 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Jan 18 2008, 07:15 PM, said:

Spacecadet if you think the lawyer who advised me what needs to be written in a statutory declaration was wrong perhaps you could explain why you think the lawyer is wrong. The ACC certainly tried to prosecute on the basis of the statutory declaration and so as far as I can see a lawyer who advised was quite correct in his advice.



Hi Alan,
You often mention lawyers, even to NZs top legal minds at times, but no names.

Who was the lawyer that wrote the stat dec?
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#20 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 07:56 PM

Hi freshrain it would be the same some that has the name on the statutory statutory. I am sorry you cannot see a rubberstamp of the law is name as well. The top legal minds do not generally like the names bandied about. But three of them are amongst the only lawyers that have been successful in the privy Council. Another one has just been successful in a landmark case in United Nations and is in the process of another United Nations case. One of his clients sent me to Wellington to read the entire file so as to determine whether or not there was a case for appeal. One of our forum members meet me there in chambers. The thing is fresh rain it is not the done thing to namedrop.
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