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Psychiatrist reccommends....Do I have too?? If I choose to use alternative therapies will I loose compensation �

#1 User is offline   redsquare74ucys 

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  Posted 25 November 2007 - 09:13 PM

Hi there,

I went for an assessment on Friday and the Psychiatrist has told me she is recommending anti-psychotics +SSRI (and CBT of course). I felt comfortable with the assessor, and felt like she understood.

I love myself, and I want to get better and have laid out a treatment plan of my own using alternative therapies such as NLP, etc etc, and I plan to take the psych report to a GP who is also into alternatives so I can get his advise before proceeding.

My question (it has been troubling me all weekend...) is if I choose not to follow her reccomendations will I no longer be eligible for an independance allowance?? Does anyone out there have suggestions of other alternatives that they have tried?? I am in Wellington.

I was intending to pay for this out of whatever I receive - if I receive any.

This is really freaking me out because I have just been abused by a therapist who used my psychological state for his own sexual gratification, and also I grew up in a mental hospital and around tales of exploitation of clients, particularly when the integration back into the community began in the early 90's. Because of seeing all those patients in the villa's and my family background I've never even tried drugs and when I think of taking stuff the Psych is talking about I imagine it to be like putting pure poison in my mouth/arm. It's all a bit close to home for me. Also, I am concerned about the toxins that are contained in anti-psychs.

Sheesh! Anyone know about this stuff??
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#2 User is offline   Chrissy 

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 11:14 PM

You have the right to choose which ever treatment you prefer...it is a basic human right...ACC may try to state otherwise but assuming the treatment you choose will be beneficial to you and suitable to your needs and with the backing of your GP you will not have a problem.

No one can force you to take something you are against taking...to do so will be infringing on your human rights...don't let this bother you any longer! Good luck.
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#3 User is offline   freefallnz 

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 10:22 AM

Indeed you have the right to be fully informed about any treatment you may receive.

You have the right not to accept that treatment if you dont want too.

Your Health Rights
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#4 User is offline   neddy 

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 11:24 AM

View Postredsquare74ucys, on Nov 25 2007, 10:13 PM, said:

Hi there,

I went for an assessment on Friday and the Psychiatrist has told me she is recommending anti-psychotics +SSRI (and CBT of course). I felt comfortable with the assessor, and felt like she understood.

I love myself, and I want to get better and have laid out a treatment plan of my own using alternative therapies such as NLP, etc etc, and I plan to take the psych report to a GP who is also into alternatives so I can get his advise before proceeding.

My question (it has been troubling me all weekend...) is if I choose not to follow her reccomendations will I no longer be eligible for an independance allowance?? Does anyone out there have suggestions of other alternatives that they have tried?? I am in Wellington.

I was intending to pay for this out of whatever I receive - if I receive any.

This is really freaking me out because I have just been abused by a therapist who used my psychological state for his own sexual gratification, and also I grew up in a mental hospital and around tales of exploitation of clients, particularly when the integration back into the community began in the early 90's. Because of seeing all those patients in the villa's and my family background I've never even tried drugs and when I think of taking stuff the Psych is talking about I imagine it to be like putting pure poison in my mouth/arm. It's all a bit close to home for me. Also, I am concerned about the toxins that are contained in anti-psychs.

Sheesh! Anyone know about this stuff??



First and primary question remains around trust.

Is there a health Professional you can trust?

You have been abused then further traumatised by another therapist, who I hope has been reported/charged.

You need a basis of trust to start from.

Approach your local Rape Crisis Centre and ask who the best sexual matters doctors are and seek their advice, they will have a list of sympathetic doctors and counsellors.

You cannot walk this one alone, you need someone to trust and help you though this. Medication and CBT can help, but without trust it won't work properly for you.



I cant answer about allowances, i just don't know.
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#5 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 11:53 AM

To me it looks like that the case manager is using your mental injuries for there gain.

a person like you needs some one to manage the claim to make sure that the case manager is not abusing there position.
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#6 User is offline   redsquare74ucys 

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  Posted 26 November 2007 - 01:41 PM

View Postneddy, on Nov 26 2007, 12:24 PM, said:

First and primary question remains around trust.

Is there a health Professional you can trust?

You have been abused then further traumatised by another therapist, who I hope has been reported/charged.

You need a basis of trust to start from.

Approach your local Rape Crisis Centre and ask who the best sexual matters doctors are and seek their advice, they will have a list of sympathetic doctors and counsellors.

You cannot walk this one alone, you need someone to trust and help you though this. Medication and CBT can help, but without trust it won't work properly for you.
I cant answer about allowances, i just don't know.


Thanks Neddy and others,

I have to be cautious about who I talk to. He was on the board of Hutt Rape Crisis up until Nov/Dec 06, so when I phoned them in CRISIS around Oct 31/Nov 1 2005 and they took nearly a month to phone me back NATURALLY I was suspicious of why that had happened. When I searched for someone else who I could go to for help I felt pretty much screwed. After much prodding from a friend I finally saw an ACC counsellor in Nov '06 (harder than it sounds given what had just happened).

It was horrific, with nowhere to go I ended up going back to him for help. I felt wholely dependant on him for my self worth. The panic attacks where my neck felt like it was closing up, the rage and confusion, my kids seeing me crying continuously, self repulsion ....and it didn't end until August of 2006 when he moved away, completely abandoning me and revealing once and for all how little he cared about what he had done. I had indicated that I still needed help, so he had promised to find me someone we could both trust to work with, and he would keep in touch via email. No email ever came and I fell apart all over again, finally breaking down in front of a group of people who were talking about him and his superior knowledge - don't recommend this, very embarrassing.

I didn't lay a complaint until a friend emailed a copy of a newspaper article with the therapist who abused me in it. Basically he had convinced me that I was using him, and this was all my fault. (I haven't properly developed socially so this was easy for him to do). He even cried in front of me saying he didn't mean to hurt me.

He had abused someone else and she was just like me! Childhood sexual abuse, raped as an adult, and then abused by him. I spent a week coming to a decision and then laid a complaint with the HDC in March? this year. I know they can't stop him practicing, but, hey I'm not going to just let him do this.

Bet he wasn't counting on my Maori fighting spirit coming out and biting him in the arse. That's why I'm not too bothered by seeing and hearing things. In the pit of dispair I called for my ancestors to come and fight with me and they came so not much point in medicating them away. Psych diagnosed me with Borderline Personality Disorder so there is more to this than just seeing and hearing things. CBT would be good though.
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#7 User is offline   neddy 

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 03:27 PM

View Postredsquare74ucys, on Nov 26 2007, 02:41 PM, said:

Thanks Neddy and others,

I have to be cautious about who I talk to. He was on the board of Hutt Rape Crisis up until Nov/Dec 06, so when I phoned them in CRISIS around Oct 31/Nov 1 2005 and they took nearly a month to phone me back NATURALLY I was suspicious of why that had happened. When I searched for someone else who I could go to for help I felt pretty much screwed. After much prodding from a friend I finally saw an ACC counsellor in Nov '06 (harder than it sounds given what had just happened).

It was horrific, with nowhere to go I ended up going back to him for help. I felt wholely dependant on him for my self worth. The panic attacks where my neck felt like it was closing up, the rage and confusion, my kids seeing me crying continuously, self repulsion ....and it didn't end until August of 2006 when he moved away, completely abandoning me and revealing once and for all how little he cared about what he had done. I had indicated that I still needed help, so he had promised to find me someone we could both trust to work with, and he would keep in touch via email. No email ever came and I fell apart all over again, finally breaking down in front of a group of people who were talking about him and his superior knowledge - don't recommend this, very embarrassing.

I didn't lay a complaint until a friend emailed a copy of a newspaper article with the therapist who abused me in it. Basically he had convinced me that I was using him, and this was all my fault. (I haven't properly developed socially so this was easy for him to do). He even cried in front of me saying he didn't mean to hurt me.

He had abused someone else and she was just like me! Childhood sexual abuse, raped as an adult, and then abused by him. I spent a week coming to a decision and then laid a complaint with the HDC in March? this year. I know they can't stop him practicing, but, hey I'm not going to just let him do this.

Bet he wasn't counting on my Maori fighting spirit coming out and biting him in the arse. That's why I'm not too bothered by seeing and hearing things. In the pit of dispair I called for my ancestors to come and fight with me and they came so not much point in medicating them away. Psych diagnosed me with Borderline Personality Disorder so there is more to this than just seeing and hearing things. CBT would be good though.



Dont' worry about the diagnosis, PTSD and Borderline go hand in hand and the treatment proposed in my opinion is good.

Medication to control the panic and the flashbacks, intrusive thoughts, CBT to help you to learn techniques to live and laugh again.

There maybe a Maori Mental health provider in your area, have you looked at them?

You may seek to have the curse of the abuse lifted, remember though that the scars still remain and have to be dealt with, discuss this with someone you trust.

Remember above all, find someone you trust as there's no healing without it.

Arohanui,

Neddy
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#8 User is offline   hukildaspida 

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  Posted 27 November 2007 - 02:04 PM

Make sure whomever you see and who prescribes you medicine INFORMS you of ALL the SIDE EFFECTS of any medicine they suggest you take. Often a walk in the sunshine and a dose of fresh air at the beach is the best boast to ones well being.Together of course with people who make you smile and laugh. Try and surround yourself with positive people and maybe even immerse yourself into something creative like painting or even simple things like baking a cake or playing games with children to make up for the rotten times you have been dealt with. Above all for every not so good day thats one less of those you will have and one closer to the good and positive days ahead. If you get really annoyed with flashbacks of what this creep did every time you go to the toilet to do a number two imagine it as a release of the build up of crap you've been handed and then when you flush the loo say to yourself ''Dumb de doo poo to you " and off the abuser / s is/are sent into the sewerage where they belong.

Unfortunately there are some very sick so called Mental Health PROFESSIONALS who are also abusers with twisted minds and think they can get away with it .To all those whom have experienced such disgraceful abuses of power and position you must report it to both the H.D.C and also the Police as often there is a pattern of behaviour that needs to be addressed. Also find out fully about the background of these people BEFORE you go to them as they often move around from area to area particularly from overseas countrys where they've left before they are caught up with and appropriately dealt to by the appropriate authorities.

kEEP STRONG AND STAY FOCUSSED ON THE GOOD TIMES LIFE WILL BRING YOU.
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#9 User is offline   flowers 

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 04:06 PM

As Chrissy say's :
" No one can force you to take something you are against taking...to do so will be infringing on your human rights...don't let this bother you any longer! Good luck."
Speaking from a personal point of view any of these drugs are seriously dangeruos and can create problems far is excess of the problem they are used for.
Some people have bad reactions so it is essential to look up the drug and read the "CONTRAINDICATIONS" these are what known side effects are and rememmber the manufacturer will always play them down.
They often have the side effect of dulling things down as is the intent but sometimes people forget whenater they took them or not and double and tripple up accidently with devastating results.
As in my own experience as some of my posts from a few years show.
beware and be careful and if in doubt refuse it is your right and ACC cannot force youto take drugs you do not want to.

By the same token doctors advise is mostly right but often they do not look to more ho;istic methods because of the constant barrage of reps and samples stuffed in thier face by the ethicals, ie. Drug companies.............
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#10 User is offline   flowers 

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 04:11 PM

fresh air . watching the grasndkids . smelling the flowers often can have a far more benificial effect that downers or uppers and if habit forming is productive rather than counter productive as all head pills do if used long tern. Valium was one highly habit forming and has destroyed countless families and lives.
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#11 User is offline   redsquare74ucys 

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  Posted 27 November 2007 - 08:57 PM

View Postneddy, on Nov 26 2007, 04:27 PM, said:

Dont' worry about the diagnosis, PTSD and Borderline go hand in hand and the treatment proposed in my opinion is good.

Medication to control the panic and the flashbacks, intrusive thoughts, CBT to help you to learn techniques to live and laugh again.

There maybe a Maori Mental health provider in your area, have you looked at them?

You may seek to have the curse of the abuse lifted, remember though that the scars still remain and have to be dealt with, discuss this with someone you trust.

Remember above all, find someone you trust as there's no healing without it.

Arohanui,

Neddy


I was referred to Maori Mental Health here in Wellington. I was not impressed by the standard of service I received, especially the lack of communication. I haven't complained because I have too much going on and expect that eventually others will come forward.

I never knew PTSD and BPD went hand in hand! That makes sense though.
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#12 User is offline   redsquare74ucys 

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  Posted 27 November 2007 - 09:14 PM

View Posthukildaspida, on Nov 27 2007, 03:04 PM, said:

Unfortunately there are some very sick so called Mental Health PROFESSIONALS who are also abusers with twisted minds and think they can get away with it .To all those whom have experienced such disgraceful abuses of power and position you must report it to both the H.D.C and also the Police as often there is a pattern of behaviour that needs to be addressed. Also find out fully about the background of these people BEFORE you go to them as they often move around from area to area particularly from overseas countrys where they've left before they are caught up with and appropriately dealt to by the appropriate authorities.

kEEP STRONG AND STAY FOCUSSED ON THE GOOD TIMES LIFE WILL BRING YOU.


Thanks for your support Hukildaspida. I was referred to him and did check his background as much as I thought reasonable. Anyone I spoke to who knew him gave him glowing recommendations and often told me the he was really good. Because WINZ subsidised the sessions (DA/Counseling) when he filled in the form he indicated that he had several association memberships (NZAC, NZAP, NZANLP and others) and that he was registered with ACC. I went as far as looking on the internet expecting to see a list of members in the associations but there were none. Thinking it was stupid to check further, I failed to look up the associations in the phone book and check with them. I'm not even sure he was ever a member of some of them, but I know he did have NZANLP membership at one time. I didn't find out he wasn't a member until after the sex abuse began.

Disturbingly, if he waits long enough for the cases against him to blow over he could rejoin the association at some time in the future. He took great joy in pointing out that we were using NLP so I couldn't complain (LOL) and that, anyway he wasn't a member anymore so no one could do anything to him. Then he pointed out that even if I did complain that he had no money (he is of course assuming that I would only complain to get the money - WRONG!!) and he didn't have any practice insurance. I'm guessing that he may consider bankruptcy to avoid paying those exemplary damages he has already incurred.
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#13 User is offline   redsquare74ucys 

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  Posted 27 November 2007 - 09:32 PM

View Postflowers, on Nov 27 2007, 05:06 PM, said:

They often have the side effect of dulling things down as is the intent but sometimes people forget whenater they took them or not and double and tripple up accidently with devastating results.
As in my own experience as some of my posts from a few years show.
beware and be careful and if in doubt refuse it is your right and ACC cannot force youto take drugs you do not want to.

By the same token doctors advise is mostly right but often they do not look to more ho;istic methods because of the constant barrage of reps and samples stuffed in thier face by the ethicals, ie. Drug companies.............


Thanks for the heads up Flowers. I'll see if I can look up those posts. I've found a "holistic" doctor in Newtown, Wellington - Tessa Jones of the Kairanga Medical Centre. The earliest I could get an appointment was Jan 22. Cost is prohibitive ($190 for a 40min session, and another $190 session a month later + suppliments as required) but at least it gives me an option. They do some of those tests I've seen on Dr Phil. I expect that this will be a safer (both in physical mental health) and less stressful (ignoring the $$$) because I won't be forced into "trusting" a psychiatrist well before I want too.
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#14 User is offline   neddy 

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 10:40 PM

View Postredsquare74ucys, on Nov 27 2007, 10:32 PM, said:

Thanks for the heads up Flowers. I'll see if I can look up those posts. I've found a "holistic" doctor in Newtown, Wellington - Tessa Jones of the Kairanga Medical Centre. The earliest I could get an appointment was Jan 22. Cost is prohibitive ($190 for a 40min session, and another $190 session a month later + suppliments as required) but at least it gives me an option. They do some of those tests I've seen on Dr Phil. I expect that this will be a safer (both in physical mental health) and less stressful (ignoring the $$$) because I won't be forced into "trusting" a psychiatrist well before I want too.



Are you receiving ACC funded counselling by an accredited Sexual abuse counsellor?

Have they accepted a historical case of abuse?

I ask because there are good , honest , ethical professionals to whom the clients's safety is paramount.

You can obtain a current list of providers from your local ACC branch or search their web page.

Your major concern is to get a good established psychiatrist with experience of PTSD/Borderline personality, don't be agraid to ask their level of expertise and knowledge. Also look for a counsellor that uses the approaches of Rogers and Briere in CBT counselling, they are usually up with the play.

This is long work, not overnight, 3 visit's and it's fixed, it can take years for you to learn the survival techniques you need and you need a safe environment to practise in.

Be wary of quick fixes and New Age therapies unless they have a proven track record, easy way is to ask if there treatment can be subsidised or paid for by Govt. Agencies, are the members of a professional association you can check on-line, if they are not bonafide, they'll soon panic.
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#15 User is offline   redsquare74ucys 

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  Posted 29 November 2007 - 09:26 PM

View Postneddy, on Nov 27 2007, 11:40 PM, said:

Are you receiving ACC funded counselling by an accredited Sexual abuse counsellor?

Have they accepted a historical case of abuse?

I ask because there are good , honest , ethical professionals to whom the clients's safety is paramount.

You can obtain a current list of providers from your local ACC branch or search their web page.

Your major concern is to get a good established psychiatrist with experience of PTSD/Borderline personality, don't be agraid to ask their level of expertise and knowledge. Also look for a counsellor that uses the approaches of Rogers and Briere in CBT counselling, they are usually up with the play.

This is long work, not overnight, 3 visit's and it's fixed, it can take years for you to learn the survival techniques you need and you need a safe environment to practise in.

Be wary of quick fixes and New Age therapies unless they have a proven track record, easy way is to ask if there treatment can be subsidised or paid for by Govt. Agencies, are the members of a professional association you can check on-line, if they are not bonafide, they'll soon panic.


I won't be seeing another counselor. Despite seeing numerous counselors I have never "got" counseling and am especially uncomfortable when they ask for specifics about the abuse. (Suspect this has something to do with how I have been humiliated by a family member in front of others outside the family about the abuse). So won't be doing that - went to see an ACC one just to have it recorded. Felt resonable before the counseling began and by the fifth session decisively suicidal, so you see it is a self preservation thing.

Wise advise on the New Age stuff. I've already wasted tens of thousands of my own money.

Have noted your suggestion of Rodgers and B. so will check out my psychologist(s) or psychiatrist as the case my be. Thanks Noddy!!
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#16 User is offline   neddy 

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 09:44 PM

View Postredsquare74ucys, on Nov 29 2007, 10:26 PM, said:

I won't be seeing another counselor. Despite seeing numerous counselors I have never "got" counseling and am especially uncomfortable when they ask for specifics about the abuse. (Suspect this has something to do with how I have been humiliated by a family member in front of others outside the family about the abuse). So won't be doing that - went to see an ACC one just to have it recorded. Felt resonable before the counseling began and by the fifth session decisively suicidal, so you see it is a self preservation thing.

Wise advise on the New Age stuff. I've already wasted tens of thousands of my own money.

Have noted your suggestion of Rodgers and B. so will check out my psychologist(s) or psychiatrist as the case my be. Thanks Noddy!!



When you go to a counsellor, talk about now, what is in your head now, not the past or the future. Don't talk of the abuse if it causes you flashbacks etc. Ask your therapist for small steps to take to help you to manage to live in the moment safely. The abuse can de discussed when you are ready and can do it safely. You have to learn to live first before you can start to heal

This is something from Oprah Winfrey's site that may be useful, if it's not for you, discard it.



Steps to Live in the Moment

Step One: Take a Body Step
Practice checking in with your body every day.
Ask yourself, “How am I feeling today?”
Create quiet time for yourself—you can hear what your body is trying to whisper to you.
Do a “full body scan.” Get still and close your eyes. Visualize and feel your body from head to toe.
Notice any discomfort, aches, pains, and take note


Steps to Live in the Moment

Step Two: Take a Mind Step
Stop and take a breath—practice being in the moment. Sometimes the best thing you can do is nothing.
We are human beings, not human “doings.”


Steps to Live in the Moment

Step Three: Take a Movement Step
Find a form of exercise to do mindfully. Remember a time when you enjoyed movement—dancing, walking, swimming—and start to incorporate it into your everyday life. Remember, don’t focus on solving your problems while exercising; focus on the activity.


Steps to Live in the Moment

Step Four: Take a Nutrition Step
Pay attention to what you eat and why. Are you eating because you’re hungry, bored, to fill a need, for comfort?


Steps to Live in the Moment

Step Five: Take a Spirit Step
Do something that makes you feel connected to the greater universe. This could be something religious like praying, being with friends or spending time in nature. Another way to take your spirit step is to remember where you turn in times of crisis, and start to use this in your everyday life.

have a good NOW!

Neddy
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#17 User is offline   hukildaspida 

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  Posted 30 November 2007 - 04:07 PM

I hope you wrote a formal Complaint to W.I.N.Z re this creature so the have it on their records a complaint has been made.
It's very important that you do as soon as you are able in case there have also been other complaints.One complaint is reason enough to look into such disgraceful conduct , more than one is reason to be questioning if the person is really capable of what they claim to be . Sometimes it's a good idea to write up a draft copy and keep it for few days then go back to it reword / delete the bits that may need changing then send it when you feel that you've worded it how you really want it worded.
Take great pleasure in then burning the draft copies and imagine the stress release you are given as you have not done anything wrong and should NOT be made to feel how you have been.
ALWAYS KEEP A COPY OF ALL CORRESPONDENCE YOU SEND TO THESE DEPARTMENTS AND THERE PROVIDERS.

Keep smiling as you have a lovely smile.
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#18 User is offline   hukildaspida 

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 04:16 PM

The Ministry of Health gov.t website has some good informationand links that may help in advance with the type of questions these ''Specialists'' ask. I get very annoyed they still get away with asking what Religion one is as they have a habit of ''PUTTING PEOPLE DOWN'' if they have Religous values and I am aware and have heard it first hand from a Mental Health worker they think Christians are not ''NORMAL'' people. Oh and you will get put into place if you ask them ''AM I NORMAL THEN TO HAVE THE REACTION AND FEELINGS '' to the situation you have been unfortunate to be placed in.
So much for the HUMAN RIGHTS ACT TO BE COMPLIED WITH isn't it ? Time these Health experts were reminded of their Legal obligations to STOP DISCRIMINATING AGAINST PEOPLE FOR THEIR RELIGIOUS VALUES.
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#19 User is offline   redsquare74ucys 

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  Posted 04 December 2007 - 11:01 AM

I don't get that question either. It's really invasive and in the setting I felt obligated to answer with no time to think about if I wanted to answer it.

Will lay a complaint when I figure out where to send it...... :blink:

Called my case worker to ask what happens next (much better than sitting here stressing). She said that because I have applied for a lump sum/IA within a year of lodging a claim - remember my abuser was on the board of Rape Crisis at the time I first phoned a 24hr CRISIS line and my call wasn't returned. It took me about a year to go back and the entire time I felt very suspicious of my counselor who worked in the same place but it was the only way to lodge an ACC claim because THEY ALL WORK TOGETHER!!

Case worker, bless her, says that I didn't attend an assessment (I presume that's where they decide what % impairment you have), but had a psych report instead to establish whether or not my condition is "stable and permanent".

OooooK. Thought that my GP signed a form already stating that. Doesn't a GP's written word count anymore??? Maybe not with ACC. Or *hopeful face* this is just a mistake by my case worker and that was the regular assessment?? Shouldn't they have told me if it wasn't?

I'm not getting a good feeling about this. I'm going to search this site for a definition of what "stable" means.
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#20 User is offline   flowers 

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 11:28 AM

Quote

definition of what "stable" means.

Waiting in the stable for the Knacker? :wub:
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