[Spacecadet]

Has anybody got a copy of the current "ACC Delegation Manual" ?

I need a copy for my legal research and I note several of your quote from this so I suspect these is the odd copy lying around.

Thanks

[Tomcat]

Greetings,
"Provisions Relating to The Corporation"
= Schedual 5... 2001 act... ( at back of hard copy)...
sec 25... ="Delegations"...
may be of help, or explaination... ???

[waddie]

sch. 5 cl.25 Additional persons to whom delegations can be made
Despite section 73(1)(d) of the Crown Entities Act 2004, the Corporation need not obtain the approval of the Minister before delegating services provided under this Act to any person referred to in paragraph (d) of that section.

CE Act 2004. s.73.1 (d)any other person or persons approved by the entity's responsible Minister:

[Huggy]

It looks to me that once the minister has given approval to the person or persons as referred to in s73(1)(d) then the Corporation do not need to get the approval from the minister for the board to delegate out to the people she has approved.

[Tomcat]

Greetings,
Schedule, 5..sec 25 (8)...

"The Corporation is liable for the actions of any delegates or "sub-delegates", as if that person were
an employee of the corporation(whether or not that is the case) and if as any directions given or control exercised by any person over the delegate or "sub-delegate" in that capacity were directions given or control exercised by the corporation"

compare... 1998 no 114 sched. 6 of 25...

SO... who is "ultimately responsible" for the B.S.
provided by "toadies" and PI's etc... ???

[Hardwired]

tomcat,
you may have old print of act???????????
25's been altered.25th jan 05 i think,
REPEAL CLAUSE 25 AND SUBSTITUE.
25 , Additional persons to whom delegations can be made..
waddies put the wording up as it is now.

[Spacecadet]

What I am after is access to the internal procedures manual of delegation. I am well aware of the current Act - hence the need for access to the manual to see what is really going on at the lowers levels - so to speak.

[waddie]

I assume it means ACC can engage any individual or orgainsation it sees fit to fullfil it obligations under the legislation. This would include PI, auditors, lawyers, rehab providers etc. It would also mean these individual and organisations are also subject to the code of ACC claimants' rights.

Plain language applies. ACC does not need the Ministers approval IMHO.

[Huggy]

ACC doesnt need the ministers approval however it looks like the minister needs to approve the people ACC wishes to delegate out to.

[waddie]

You have a point Huggy. I think the intention is ACC can engage any person without the Ministers approval, but the wording is not so clear. Either that, or there is a rubber stamp process where ACC gives the Minister a list of those persons the ACC wish to delegate to.

[Huggy]

Despite section 73(1)(d) of the Crown Entities Act 2004, the Corporation need not obtain the approval of the Minister before delegating services provided under this Act to any person referred to in paragraph (d) of that section.


Therefore to me it looks like the minister has to give approval as 73(1)(d) is specifically referred to as having to be done.

And the Corporation do not need to get approval from the minister to delegate out if the minister has approved them.

So therefore the Minister has to go through procedures of some sort to ensure the person she has approved are and i quote from a letter from Dyson "reputable and professional within the particular industry".

What a fucken joke as i know of a PI that has been very naughty.

Quote from Dr White " Peter Gibbons of Mainland Information Consultants is still on a contractual basis to the Corporation, however he has not been given any new cases for some time."

Hmmmmmmmm

[Spacecadet]

Huggy, on Nov 19 2007, 09:28 AM, said:

Despite section 73(1)(d) of the Crown Entities Act 2004, the Corporation need not obtain the approval of the Minister before delegating services provided under this Act to any person referred to in paragraph (d) of that section.
Therefore to me it looks like the minister has to give approval as 73(1)(d) is specifically referred to as having to be done.

And the Corporation do not need to get approval from the minister to delegate out if the minister has approved them.

The other issue is that ACC claim they are not "delegating" but "contracting for services"

It all goes back to the leglislation which defines the "function" of the Corporation.

Cant say more at this stage.

[MINI]

Spacecadet, on Nov 19 2007, 08:32 AM, said:

The other issue is that ACC claim they are not "delegating" but "contracting for services"

It all goes back to the leglislation which defines the "function" of the Corporation.

Cant say more at this stage.

Spacecadet

I think you will find that each person employed by an entity is delegated a certain amount of 'power'. That person can be delegated a higher authority for a certain purpose and a certain time. (Say if someone had to step into a managerial positition while all others are away). That is quite usual in Crown entities. It does not mean that person retains that status, after the need is no longer there.

The same cannot be said for contracting of entities to do certain work. They would have to hold the power needed to be able to carry out the tasks as intented and insturcted. If that needed to be a certain level of police clearance for instance, they would need it before the contract could be signed or legal.

Whats the old message: "You can delegate authority but not responsibility". I think you will find that message is as true today as it was when I was learning business studies. I think you will find at the end of the day, once you have got around the fancy launguage that ACC cannot delegate responsibility and they will be held accountable for any mess ups of the contracted parties, if not the delegated entity.

Have I got that right?? Not been used for a while so might be a bit rusty!!!

Good Luck.
Mini

[Spacecadet]

I now have a copy thanks.