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Total Declinature Of Claim / Alan Thomas Allegations of working while incapacitated

#11041 User is offline   tommy 

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:25 PM

I can understand those comments , as you mentioned in regard whom should or be expected to perform to corporations outcomes of trying to eradicate a claimant , more in particular of long term claimants etc Hence it has created a very small percentage , assesors , providers etc employed to the corporation to give honest results or then if not thru some providers sitting on the financial wagon , or then to challenge the reports of what has been reported , which what has been numerously brought to attention on the forum
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#11042 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:50 PM

View Posttommy, on 08 August 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

I can understand those comments , as you mentioned in regard whom should or be expected to perform to corporations outcomes of trying to eradicate a claimant , more in particular of long term claimants etc Hence it has created a very small percentage , assesors , providers etc employed to the corporation to give honest results or then if not thru some providers sitting on the financial wagon , or then to challenge the reports of what has been reported , which what has been numerously brought to attention on the forum


Should you have any concerns about the integrity of ACC assessments what you need to do is ensure that the ACC staff member has placed all of the relevant information in the hands of the assessor and that they don't bring about, prosecutions against the ACC staff for attempting to solicit a false document. If the assessor makes any statements that cannot be validated by the material in their possession then likewise initiate a private criminal prosecution against them.

To my knowledge I am the only ACC claimed who is ever launched private criminal prosecutions against one of ACC assessors and their staff.
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#11043 User is offline   tommy 

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:56 PM

If and how a citizen insures themselves today in with already paying to a levy etc to the govt via acc ,then insuring again thru a private insurer , and then if not sure who to cover youself again you may want to find a third party , how to stall results , as a claim , that should of never happened to begin with ? but that is how monies are made to the whoms of monetary controls in the biggere picture ?
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#11044 User is offline   tommy 

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 09:05 PM

As a question in regard to date of challenging the corporation , could you put a monetary figure in true dollars personally it has cost to date in legal sides , not lost incomes etc. You do not have to answer the qwuestion if you do not think it is of any relevance , to whomever
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#11045 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 09:34 PM

View Posttommy, on 08 August 2014 - 08:56 PM, said:

If and how a citizen insures themselves today in with already paying to a levy etc to the govt via acc ,then insuring again thru a private insurer , and then if not sure who to cover youself again you may want to find a third party , how to stall results , as a claim , that should of never happened to begin with ? but that is how monies are made to the whoms of monetary controls in the biggere picture ?


I did have what is called "key person insurance" when I was injured and they paid out $300,000 within a very short time. ACC was such a terrible struggle And even then they only have the a fraction of my actual earnings. As you know there has been considerable trouble Throughout the entire course of my claim/s.

Having private insurance as well does not diminish the ACC liability.
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#11046 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 09:37 PM

View Posttommy, on 08 August 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

As a question in regard to date of challenging the corporation , could you put a monetary figure in true dollars personally it has cost to date in legal sides , not lost incomes etc. You do not have to answer the qwuestion if you do not think it is of any relevance , to whomever


ACC has been more than $2 million on private investigators, internal costs within the ACC legal department, civil and district court costs. The ACC asked legal aid not to pay out any form of legal aid. Legal aid provided five hours pre-trial funding to a seven-week criminal court file which was raised to 15 hours per week to the file.

I have had pay for additional software including voice software and purchase a number of old computers and printers along the way. Paper and toner cartridges alone would have cost me a few thousand dollars.
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#11047 User is offline   tommy 

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 09:51 PM

That is a very interesting comment of getting a private insurers payout and then i was led to believe you were not meant to double dip of a second payout of an insurer yourself like many others in particular acc, but that as you know lump sums only come in an extreme conditionds of injury loss of eyesight etc and if not the independence allowances comes to what a claimant is entitled to
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#11048 User is offline   tommy 

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 10:18 PM

Overall to date , my primary interest , is the subject of work task activities vs residual activities , which unless you understand it has become a minefield of whom can exploit it to whoms advantages, disadvantages ?
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#11049 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 10:57 PM

View Posttommy, on 08 August 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

That is a very interesting comment of getting a private insurers payout and then i was led to believe you were not meant to double dip of a second payout of an insurer yourself like many others in particular acc, but that as you know lump sums only come in an extreme conditionds of injury loss of eyesight etc and if not the independence allowances comes to what a claimant is entitled to


No it was because I had to stop work on doctors orders
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#11050 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 10:58 PM

View Posttommy, on 08 August 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

Overall to date , my primary interest , is the subject of work task activities vs residual activities , which unless you understand it has become a minefield of whom can exploit it to whoms advantages, disadvantages ?


You don't have to work part time!
ACC act is all or nothing
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#11051 User is offline   David Butler 

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 11:19 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on 08 August 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

You don't have to work part time!
ACC act is all or nothing


ALL OR NOTHING which is what you tried and FAILED
and got nothing great result eh ya fraudster

You were done on using a document with an INTENT
which YOU HAD AND YOU INTENDED AND DID mislead the acc as to what exactly you were doing and only fessed up after you were made to when they figured out youd bullshitted them

bugger the work bullshit excuses tomas
your a loser tomas and ALWAYS WILL BE

dave
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#11052 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 12:07 AM

View PostDavid Butler, on 08 August 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

ALL OR NOTHING which is what you tried and FAILED
and got nothing great result eh ya fraudster

You were done on using a document with an INTENT
which YOU HAD AND YOU INTENDED AND DID mislead the acc as to what exactly you were doing and only fessed up after you were made to when they figured out youd bullshitted them

bugger the work bullshit excuses tomas
your a loser tomas and ALWAYS WILL BE

dave


It is sad that you are still so mixed up.

When we are injured and told by a doctor that we must stop work so we do not making a injury any words while we are waiting for surgery, do you think that when the ACC think that we are working any way that the ACC should have say could try but you should not disobey your doctor's instructions. Y on as with the ACC cancel the claim and prosecute for Fraud while person should not work because of the injuries?

Do you think that there is any possibility that the ACC cannot understand the difference between cannot and should not?

If the ACC are thinking that at Doctor has made a mistake in filling out the ACC 18 medical certificate do you think that someone should have a word with the doctor?

Why have they not prosecuted the Doctor for producing a false document? Why has the Doctor not been struck off for incompetency and not being able to read CT and MRI scans?


Do you think I should rely upon the ACC or the Doctor?
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#11053 User is offline   David Butler 

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 07:43 AM

View PostAlan Thomas, on 09 August 2014 - 12:07 AM, said:

It is sad that you are still so mixed up.

When we are injured and told by a doctor that we must stop work so we do not making a injury any words while we are waiting for surgery, do you think that when the ACC think that we are working any way that the ACC should have say could try but you should not disobey your doctor's instructions. Y on as with the ACC cancel the claim and prosecute for Fraud while person should not work because of the injuries?

Do you think that there is any possibility that the ACC cannot understand the difference between cannot and should not?

If the ACC are thinking that at Doctor has made a mistake in filling out the ACC 18 medical certificate do you think that someone should have a word with the doctor?

Why have they not prosecuted the Doctor for producing a false document? Why has the Doctor not been struck off for incompetency and not being able to read CT and MRI scans?


Do you think I should rely upon the ACC or the Doctor?


Doubt the doctor made a mistake-Hes not a bloody mind reader Thomas-ITS THE THINGS YOU NEVER INFORMED HIM OFF you were challenged on-so why would he be struck off ?
IT WAS YOU >that it was decided that WOULD BE STRUCK OFF.
The Doctor as per the acc form he fills out=OUT =ON YOUR BEHLAF-with what medical data he has in hand,and RELIES ON YOUR INFORMATION to place what information being NON MEDICAL .YOU require and ask to be placed in the medical;l certificate-after all-YOU are at the doctors providing the info and the Doctor relies on your HONESTY-iT is UP TO YOU as the final signature to ensure that you sign the form as per the requirements of that form and the acc requirements of that form
ACC then use that information to process your claim and payment of weekly erc payments and AGAIN the ACC can only rely on your information provided to them at that time and thus again it is your HONESTY to the acc with information as per the medical form requirements as a whole, that is the most relevant important part of the info.
The information can say whatever but if you do different than what that info says then its YOUR PROBLEM.
The doctor cant know or be responsible for things you do that are. against the forms requirements of info.
You didnt tell acc or the doctor exactly what you were doing that was omitted from the medical certs or provided separately to acc,.
You always lay the blame back to others for your OWN DISHONESTY Thomas.
As you always blow you trumpet being the allegedly intelligent one[seems not thE case tho to me and the ACC /Courts]You were very capable as a businessman to do all sorts of deals company things bank accounts quotes ,complicated paperwork travel the world SO DONT tell me you were unable to understand comprehend a SIMPLE ACC form and then blame others for your LACK OF INTELLIGENCE TO BE ABLE TO READ THAT FORM PROPERLY.
So in answer to your question at the end should you rely on the ACC or the Doctor
WHAT A DUMB QUESTION tHOMAS
The ACT says clearly >>>>>>>>>>>The ACC and thus then the Doctor rely on YOU and you failed to do that .
Whats NOT placed In the form at the time -But a requirement of that form and the ACC Act's =THEN IT IS YOUR OBLIGATION to have that info provided to the ACC,no one else's YOURS Thomas and you never did that .
Your about as devious as Weal was flying back to Whangarei to his favorite pet doctor who according to weal would write what he wanted for winz / acc certs,,rather than change to one where he was residing.
Dave
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#11054 User is offline   David Butler 

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 08:18 AM

View PostDavid Butler, on 05 August 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:



BLURB


Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:56 PM

David Butler, on 02 August 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

No arrangement with the ACC Thomas
I would be one of the biggest pain in the ass to acc intelligence there is re opening up what they already knew.

Perhaps you could enlighten us all on the dealings set up etc etc of YOUR advocate From /and the Para Legal Trust that operated within here [WITH YOUR KNOWLEDGE] Were/WAS FLEECING members/claimants doing much damage/ harm to them and explain the set up and SHOW that is was all legal and above board.?
Thew trust data is easily found in the companies office for you to start with the facts .
Lets see how good you really are then Thomas as the intelligent Paradigm Shifter you alleged yourself to be
No doubt, Fran Van Helmond can assist you with his wealth of knowledge seems he sticks up for Erica as a good guy in here.
You are again misleading visitors David Butler!


Nothing misleading at all Fran

All I wrote was asking you to lay off posting your filthy and disgusting language and threats against the man!

You appear to be mistaken as usual as to whom you refer to as poster-I posted not as your state
Maybe you should refresh and check who the posters were
No different then as it is now with all the aka alias member names coming in to abuse=YOUR many member names were put to use then Franny-as you still do i see

Day after day night after night you and your heyho silver side kick, lets refer to her as kerisee, took over this fine ACCforum.org and when ever one of the genuine members attempted to ask you to cool it you attacked us and threatened us with the following words "I'll fuck you over"!

yes you did receive that and its still on as far as im concerned fran-YOU DID THE NAMING ,And ya wonder why ya ben taken on-Ihave fuked ya over just a tad to date MORE TO COME YET Tho im afraid
YOU NAMED members in here and were the INITIAL ONE TO STRART NAMING PERSONAL DETAILS OF MEMBERS along with Claire Hollis doing exactly the same harassing intimidating members with publishing of members personal details since way back 2007/ 2008.2009 era
CLAIRE AND OTHERS were at you for that at the time as well as the Admin-

And yes, now both I and Mini are being "F--ked over" by you attempting to implicate us, which we both are not, never have been nor never will be, into your deluded tbp conspiracy fantasy dreams

YOU HAVE NOT SHOWN anything to alter that as a fact as to your association with WEAL-That is for Thomas to be the per-suer-as to any conspiracy not my court case to be bothered with-You worry to much about me when you should be concerned about what your going to say when Thomas has you in court=AS OPPOSED th the documents hes going to present to you to respond to UNDER OATH.
so as to distract everyones attention from you and your own involvement!
NO INVOLVEMENT re the Plot at al Fran-Your the detractor and misleader here re YOUR PART IN THE PLOT WITH WEAL

Since your prolonged/over the top abuse against that advocate you refered to, this fine ACCforum.org lost many many genuine long standing members, some mere claimants and others were laywers etc who assisted and gave excellent advise whenever help was needed!

Any members that left because of Eric then they would have seen that the place was being used bu an asshole AND moat likely used there brain and left as who was a good one and who was NOT and rather than rely of false info in here best they went-Thats there choice ,There was NO difference in the content that ensued re erica than there was about Gibbons and the fraud issues=Just ones like erica and his mate Mutilated tried to shut it down as to eric being shown up -AND of course we have your very public slagging libelous abuse harassment of public forum members acc staff of a rather nasty personal attacks at them BY YOU-Yet you try and lay the issue re abuse at others when your the worst offender this forum has ever had at abuse Fran.
alas i stuck to the game plan and eric was shown as a NO GOOD Advocate via documents AND NOT GOSSIP or aLIES like you ALWAYS / STILL use to try and make a point
Erica certainly was NOT and on my watch HE WAS GONE BURGER Franny

It was you and your abusive and filthy attitude towards them and other members, including your post after post, day after day, night after night, of slanderous, abusive, threatening attacks along with the absolutely disgusting filthy language you were using, a huge number of great individuals left and have never returned!


Im unsure where all this is Fran details were published and the usual ones who stuck up for eric LIKE YOU made a mess of what was a notification of be aware that eric was a no good advocate>Via documentation,
The mess made by YOU Fran with your stance of say NOTHING ABOUT ERIC ABLY ASSISTED BY MILLER AND CO
Why did you protect a known rip off advocate?
Give him a call im sure he he glad to hear from you and assist to compile the data on the Para Legal Trust
Alan Thomas is not permitted to contact me due to the lies he posted regarding why the Police turned up at his home early one morning when he was very intoxicated on his 80% proof homebrewed Whiskey and used the word "suicide" many times during our conversation!



There are a couple more issues but they're best kept mum on at present.

Claire Hollis be a good one to rope in to assist you,as well seeing's shes an expert on things like that. and im sure they BOTH as being in constant communication / with the Police /IRD ACC could get you info you are unable to gather,
Dave
My response in blue
*********************************************************************************************

FRAN
DID YOU ever bother to check and see if the documentation shownre eric was correct as i said it was
IF you had and not been a detractor to try and save eric then the mess wouldn't have happened but as eric was no good then the members needed to know.
As the I Pod investigator FRAN VAN HELMOND -
You can tell the difference between the various named /trust/ alias set outs below,and tell us all WHICH one be the legal registered trust and also what Trust name the acc received and thus used to pay erica fro his advocacy work
If ya REALLY good ya might enlighten us on the bank name /account name /account numbers /details of each one of the registered Trust or Trust alias names below.

Para-Legal Advcoates and Support Services-NZ Trust
Para Legal Services NZ Trust
Para-Legal Services Trust
Para Legal Services-Hawkes Bay
Para-Legal Services - NZ Trust
Para Legal Hastings

De above be -That be something you can handle eh Franny
Doubt that very much
Show us what ya made of and do know what your publishing about Franny,
dave
Posted Image


Fran i see your out of bed early
You have not been able to show you understand the paralegal trust set up that you publish about as being got at by me.
You can show something to justify your publishing's=CAN YOU?
Altho very easy to see, It SEEMS YOU CAN NOT.

dave
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#11055 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 08:37 AM

David Butler you are extremely stupid sometimes.

I do not go to the doctor to tell the doctor what is wrong with me.

I go to the doctor to ask the doctor what is wrong with me.

The doctor then asks me to go to the specialist to ask for more details.

The specialist then sends me to the CT and MRI scan Machine to get even more and details

Then the specialist carries out surgery for an even closer look and even does some repair work.


However David Butler thinks that somehow he knows more than everybody because he has super magical powers like ACC and the judge who rely upon the ACC private eye who talk to someone who imagined something
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#11056 User is offline   David Butler 

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 09:13 AM

View PostAlan Thomas, on 09 August 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

David Butler you are extremely stupid sometimes.

I do not go to the doctor to tell the doctor what is wrong with me.
so when ya restrained an old injury and left it for months then went in HOW DID THE Doc know what was wrong with you
Google you and get it from there.Posted Image

I go to the doctor to ask the doctor what is wrong with me.

The doctor then asks me to go to the specialist to ask for more details.

The specialist then sends me to the CT and MRI scan Machine to get even more and details

Then the specialist carries out surgery for an even closer look and even does some repair work.


However David Butler thinks that somehow he knows more than everybody because he has super magical powers like ACC and the judge who rely upon the ACC private eye who talk to someone who imagined something
I did the right thing tom worked , mate unlike you i told the acc



Only ONE stupid fuker here Thomas and THATS YOU
You failed to disclose as per the acc med cert form requirements the relevant information to your claim
as you are legally supposed =REQUIRED to do
Waste a time wordsmithing round to the medical crap of yours MISSING OUT THE ISSUE OF YOUR DISHONESTY quite conveniently so others dont see what your hiding.
YOU FAILED TO ONFORM THE ACC OF THE Other issues that may affect your entitlements
AGAIN
You blame others for YOUR ''VERY OWN'' STUPIDITY.
Instead of missing out the data re your dishonesty why not write on that and tell us why you never disclosed to the ACC what you were actually doing
Not an explanation as after the fact BUT about what you were doing BEFORE YOU WERE FORCED TO FRONT UP AND Explain
Thats not medical stuff Thomas, to rely on to write Lame ass excuses with
ITS THEFT OF OUR BLOODY MONEY ''WITH AN INTENT''
Which you were found to have done.
Dave
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#11057 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 09:20 AM

View PostDavid Butler, on 09 August 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

Only ONE stupid fuker here Thomas and THATS YOU
You failed to disclose as per the acc med cart form requirements the relevant information to your claim
as you are legally supposed =REQUIRED to do
Waste a time wordsmithing round to the medical crap of yours MISSING OUT THE ISSUE OF YOUR DISHONESTY quite conveniently so others dont see what your hiding.
YOU FAILED TO ONFORM THE ACC OF THE Other issues that may affect your entitlements
AGAIN
You blame others for YOUR ''VERY OWN'' STUPIDITY.
Instead of missing out the data re your dishonesty why not write on that and tell us why you never disclosed to the ACC what you were actually doing
Not an explanation as after the fact BUT about what you were doing BEFORE YOU WERE FORCED TO FRONT UP AND Explain
Thats not medical stuff Thomas, to rely on to write Lame ass excuses with
ITS THEFT OF OUR BLOODY MONEY ''WITH AN INTENT''
Which you were found to have done.
Dave


There was no information to report.

Even the ACC have now acknowledged that they had no information that I was working.

Someone who was stealing a business and telling lies is not information.

David Butler what information are you imagining actually exists?
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#11058 User is offline   David Butler 

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 09:27 AM

View PostAlan Thomas, on 09 August 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

There was no information to report.

Even the ACC have now acknowledged that they had no information that I was working.

Someone who was stealing a business and telling lies is not information.

David Butler what information are you imagining actually exists?


So your involvement with a host of companies in your name AND
Your touting for work IN YOUR NAME Did not need reporting
UNTIL YOU WERE CAUGHTPosted Image

fuk off thomas
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#11059 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 09:31 AM

View PostDavid Butler, on 09 August 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

So your involvement with a host of companies in your name AND
Your touting for work IN YOUR NAME Did not need reporting
UNTIL YOU WERE CAUGHTPosted Image

fuk off thomas


Why do you think my shareholding in various business partnerships and inactive directorships were any business of the ACC?

Notwithstanding that this issue was resolved by the 1992 review hearing decision where the reviewers both confirmed that owning a business, being a director and even participating in that business activity in minor ways such as oversight of some sort that does not involve direct earnings activities is not part of the ACC decision-making equation. Those decisions remain binding until the present. ACC at knowledge that those review hearing decisions of 1992 remains binding until today.

David Butler you seem to be extremely confused about the ACC legislation. How is it that you have become so very confused?

Are you thinking that ACC is something like social welfare perhaps?
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#11060 User is offline   David Butler 

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 09:38 AM

View PostAlan Thomas, on 09 August 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

Why do you think my shareholding in various business partnerships and inactive directorships were any business of the ACC?
Seems ITS YOU Thomas you dont understand the act and its obligations it places apon you Thomas
and your supposed to be the messiah helping others with complicated claims and ya cant even understand plain english in a short simple form,and you were advising jonny,real great move that was.
Notwithstanding that this issue was resolved
That is NOT the issue thomas as much as you try and make it to be ,by the 1992 review hearing decision where the reviewers both confirmed that owning a business, being a director and even participating in that business activity in minor ways such as oversight of some sort that does not involve direct earnings activities is not part of the ACC decision-making equation. Those decisions remain binding until the present. ACC at knowledge that those review hearing decisions of 1992 remains binding until today.
you were found guilty of eveidential matters relating to that issue that involved what you say above which subsequently PROVED THE INTENT TO DEFRAUD Thomas
in 2000. Not 1992.

David Butler you seem to be extremely confused about the ACC legislation. How is it that you have become so very confused?

Are you thinking that ACC is something like social welfare perhaps?




You finally seem to be getting to a point of nothingness in excuses
Who gives a hoot about your bollocks of wrok directors etc

The issue is
YOU WITH AN INTENT DEFRAUDED the ACC
You were found Guilty
How did you ''WITH AN INTENT'' use a document to defraud the ACC

YOU CAN TELL US ONE ASSUMES?

AND when was that laid up your ass Thomas?
NOT in 1992 mate was it
Dave
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