ACCforum: Ptsd - ACCforum

Jump to content

  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Ptsd Competency of treatment providers

#1 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10813
  • Joined: 10-June 06

Posted 05 March 2007 - 07:17 PM

It is a well-known fact that the ACC is the driving force behind the competency of PTSD treatment providers in New Zealand. In addition the PTSD treatment industry in regards to sexual abuse has been driven by the Sensitive Claims Unit which has in turn created a circular circumstance whereby the treatment providers have fulfilled their own prophecies not for the sake of the those they treat but to perpetuate their own industry.

PTSD in relation to dramatic events both accident event and sexual abuse is poorly understood. The ACC has opted for cheaper and cheaper treatment to the point where there is no treatment whatsoever.

60 minutes made an excellent presentation 5 March 2007 regarding the nature of memory in connection with PTSD. Essentially memories are reinforced excessively to the extent that the memories are intrusive and harmful whereby other and excessive symptomology is manifest. Unfortunately the PTSD industry in New Zealand has served to reinforce these memories rather than treat the disorder.

The good news research into the relationship between memories, adrenaline and how PTSD comes about is starting to be understood whereby it can be pharmacologically treated. There is a drug under trials that reduces the intensity of the memory and the linkage to the production of adrenaline and other chemistry with the results that although the events are still remembered in the normal sense the power of those memories are reduced. This of course is very controversial.

For those of us who suffer from PTSD please keep in touch with this information and add to this posting as information becomes available. The treatment of course will require a far higher level of expertise than your average $50 per hour society dropout alturnitive pop psychology flunky who has done the 3 hour per week 12 week ACC approved course.
0

#2 User is offline   magnacarta 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 484
  • Joined: 22-October 04

Posted 05 March 2007 - 08:51 PM

Get in touch with [email protected] and tell them that their 5 March CBS report "memory pill" was a revelation to long-term ACC claimants.

It is not psyco-social conditions, in your mind, in the past, past history, get over it, as ACC often tells long term claimants.

The report shows that claimants cannot help but be "obsessive" and remember exactly what happened to them at the time of their accident and injury and events following.

It is memory following a traumatic event that remains active and becomes entrenched 24/7 by way of adrenaline sensitising the brains memory cells.

Clearly, claimants cannot help themselves continuing to react 24/7 as long as the PTSD condition is not treated.

This 60 minutes CBS report clarifies for me why we see forum claimants putting up their same stories chapter and verse day after day, even though their accident and injury happened years before.

As I said, get in touch with 60minutes and tell tham that this condition applies to most if not all long term claimants and needs to be recognised by ACC and treated.
0

#3 User is offline   activist 

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 0
  • Joined: 17-July 06

Posted 05 March 2007 - 10:56 PM

I learnt this stuff four years ago, about how the brain functions under severe stress, etc, etc. That is why I am so angry and fight so fiercly, they know this stuff, they have for years. But when you start investigating the science of trauma you realise there are thousands of people in jail who should not be there because they have had a purely normal violent reaction (but inappropriately aimed at an innocent rather than the person who traumatised them).

Personally I'm against drugs, I use EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) and just accept the flashbacks. Had one the other day at the pub, dancing away having the best time in ages, then the singer decided to try and get me up to sing. I said no way but she kept going on and on, flashback was back to the trial where the rapist was found not guilty, flipped me into a panic attack and hyperventilating, took me five minutes to realise what was happening. Got my friend, left the room to get some air, used my EFT and was calm again in about 10 mintues, enough to go back inside but not to dance.

In the brain the 'excitement' pathway is near the 'panic' pathway and I figure the electric current switches tracks when I have a flashback.

Make sure when you have flashbacks you don't berrate yourself, that sort of reinforces the negative. Just try and move through it and treat yourself like a little child - works for me anyway.

My own rehabilitation for this panic about being in front of people is to re-join Toastmasters - every time I go I am thinking of ringing and cancelling but I just do it anyway and it always turns out a positive experience - desensitising is the technical term.

One day, if I ever get the opportunity (or is it the courage) to have sex again, will be interesting to see what happens. When ACC legislation says under social rehabilitation 'sexuality' do they actually do ANYTHING with regard to this requirement?

You should see the latest photos of the brain activity of a traumatised person compared to an average person. It is almost totally focused on the lymbic brain and amygdala, very little activity in the neo-cortex (reasoning brain). I think that is why I find the baby and/or animal idea works for me, helps me understand, and helps me get creative about ways to rehabilitate myself.

You are a great asset to this site and I really appreciate reading what you have to say, as we are people living with the same disability.
0

#4 User is offline   Tomcat 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2158
  • Joined: 14-September 03

Posted 06 March 2007 - 07:05 AM

Greetings,
There is a case before the courts today re PTSD...
ACC has been "dragging the chain" on this one for some time.... Delays, etc etc...
It is hopeful of a win in this as ACC will have/ has problems refuting highly qualified Specialists reports...

Will post result when available...
0

#5 User is offline   Tomcat 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2158
  • Joined: 14-September 03

Posted 07 March 2007 - 02:26 PM

Greetings,
To add to the above post.... result...
ACC has been order to part up with "their medical info and submissions" within 21 days... :)
1

#6 User is offline   neddy 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 362
  • Joined: 17-September 03

Posted 03 August 2007 - 04:22 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Mar 5 2007, 07:17 PM, said:

It is a well-known fact that the ACC is the driving force behind the competency of PTSD treatment providers in New Zealand. In addition the PTSD treatment industry in regards to sexual abuse has been driven by the Sensitive Claims Unit which has in turn created a circular circumstance whereby the treatment providers have fulfilled their own prophecies not for the sake of the those they treat but to perpetuate their own industry.

PTSD in relation to dramatic events both accident event and sexual abuse is poorly understood. The ACC has opted for cheaper and cheaper treatment to the point where there is no treatment whatsoever.

60 minutes made an excellent presentation 5 March 2007 regarding the nature of memory in connection with PTSD. Essentially memories are reinforced excessively to the extent that the memories are intrusive and harmful whereby other and excessive symptomology is manifest. Unfortunately the PTSD industry in New Zealand has served to reinforce these memories rather than treat the disorder.

The good news research into the relationship between memories, adrenaline and how PTSD comes about is starting to be understood whereby it can be pharmacologically treated. There is a drug under trials that reduces the intensity of the memory and the linkage to the production of adrenaline and other chemistry with the results that although the events are still remembered in the normal sense the power of those memories are reduced. This of course is very controversial.

For those of us who suffer from PTSD please keep in touch with this information and add to this posting as information becomes available. The treatment of course will require a far higher level of expertise than your average $50 per hour society dropout alturnitive pop psychology flunky who has done the 3 hour per week 12 week ACC approved course.


Alan,

In a posting 6 Sept 06 PTSD explained you posted the following quote : The final diagnosis is that I don't have PTSD exactly as the causal effects are ongoing and therefore it is not "post" traumatic.
What does exactly mean, it means you don't qualify and ACC will not fund you. I think if you should tell the whole truth, the first sessions you had are what is known as the initial disclosure and they are what ACC uses to determine the claim, you probably didn't meat their criteria.

yet again you equate all PTSD treatment by what you have either recieved personally or by anecdote. That treatment applys to you only, no-one else.

Treatment for PTSD is not a set formula, ie, take this pill and all will be well. As it is there are no medications that will cure PTSD, none.

There are drugs now available that reduce somewhat the intensity of flashbacks, panics etc, but each one comes with it's own payload of side effects to compound the problem.

I suggest you do not lump Sexual Abuse clients with general PTSD cases. Overseas veteran programs have been forced to take a different approach to the cause of the PTSD, whether a traumatic event eg close death/suicide, war service, being placed in a concentration/protective custody situation, family abuse, sexual abuse and all.

I do not think anyone in their right mind would suggest there is an established PTSD industry fostered by Sensitive Claims, get real, would ACC knowlingly piss money away if there was no benefit to them or their target group, the Sensitive Claimants.

Alan, go have a talk with an active ACC Accredited Counsellor, find out what they have to bring to ACC to be accredited, what qualifications. Find out who their supervisor/peer reviewers are and their qualifications and experience and so on.

I respectfully suggest you might have to eat a bit of humble pie.

I personally do not think that Abuse Counsellor's get paid enough to have to listen and guide people through the labrynth of memories which become clearer and more defined as treatment goes on and as the effects of some medications kick in. Yes there is medication that can increase and bring back memories that are hidden because of the defence mechanisms we each have.

There is a good saying about PTSD, which is The body remembers and will reveal all in time, where as the memory doesnt yet function.

I another post you claim 90% of claims are false. I wish, God how I wish that was true, how I wish there was no abuse, that perverts, paedophiles, predator priests, psych workers, health workers, mums, dads "Uncles" "aunts didn't exist to peddle their filth and life altering "games" to the umwary.

If you have a magic cure to bring about a total reduction in Abuse Claims, bring it on, you owe it to the rest of us sufferers to tell us how.
0

#7 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10813
  • Joined: 10-June 06

Posted 03 August 2007 - 05:36 PM

The traumatic stress injury caused by the original accident defend is covered under the Act. When there is ongoing trauma from ongoing causal effects (such as in a war zone) the injury is being compounded. This type of injury that receives cover does not need to be restricted to "post" injury.

Neddy just because these issues are complex and the information to support the claims are not available to you that does not make you a hero for flaming me and me a liar. You must understand that injury cannot be pigeonholed or categorised. It seems that you have succumbed to the ACC propaganda of trying to do just that. Everybody's injury is different and nothing can be standardised!

The ACC out promoting the concept that PTSD treatment is seldom successful and therefore cannot be treated. This is because they are trying to get people that have gone may 12 week short-course to provide therapy rather than fund confident specialist psychiatrists at $180 an hour. In my own case the more expensive psychiatrists provided weekly and biweekly treatment together with medication. Once I was transferred over to the ACC I received 10 treatment from a therapist that did not even had their qualification to work as they were required to be supervised. The person that was meant to be supervising them also was not qualified. As the type of thing I mean when I am talking about the treatment "industry" promoted by the ACC.

Counselling is not treatment and as such Accredited Councillor is simply an invention of the ACC to get out of paying actual treatment. Internationally New Zealand is being ridiculed in the way in which it is underfunding this very serious problem to the extent that New Zealand is being blamed for the information is "false regenerated memory syndrome" which started off in Christchurch and spread to America. New Zealand practices have been debunked! ACC acknowledged the failure and are trying to reduce services to PTSD claimants as told to me by my doctor.

The reason why the vast majority of accepted PTSD claims for sexual abuse are known not to be genuine is the statistical impossibility. This is an area that the legal industry is working in at this moment. A portion of these claimants are not even aware that a false memory has been generated.

Neddy in order to face the horrors that the real victims share we must be able to determine what is real and what is false and properly resourced these real victims with real treatment. In order to do this we must strip away the false claimants as they are eating up valuable resources. The false claimants are also reducing the seriousness of the problem.

One of the longest standing claimants was one of the first members to the original site back in 1998 and I met him for the first time just a couple of weeks ago regarding addressing the very serious issue of claimant suicide of which a good portion PTSD claimants. Neddy I am not reducing the seriousness of PTSD claimant's plight by facing the reality of such a large number of false claimants. Unfortunately a lot of these claimant receiving funding because of the gang problem within the ACC itself.

The reduction of abuse claims or not occur while the majority false claims causing the ACC to become so resistant and disbelieving. I would propose that the ACC work with the senior professionals in this area rather than the short-course idiots that they rely on. You only have to look at the loony tune that is the manager of the Sensitive Claims Unit who would have difficulty knowing left-from-right. She has zero capacity of any reason, no capacity for empathy, totally burnt out and most certainly should not be a manager of a division that has the highest suicide rate.

The bigger picture is education of society in general. This would start with some form of ethics tuition in schools. I have been placed in the very unique position of having large numbers of convicted perpetrators confiding in me toward the end of their sentence. These persons having nothing further is a loose opened up to me completely telling me things they had not told to anyone else. I am talking about the intimate details. These persons ranged from repeat lifetime offenders through to those who had been convicted and overly sentenced for doing very very little. What was surprising is that friends and family were routinely making false claims and getting lump-sum payoffs from the ACC. They were working the system.

I was truly amazed that the large number of prisoners I discussed the person case histories with were not even aware of what is right and what is wrong. The majority of the perpetrators have very little perception of the issue of consent not realising that a child does not have the capacity of consent. Children also need to learn what is right and wrong as the vast majority are persuaded into inappropriate activity rather than being a victim of force.

With regards to myself one of the symptoms I suffer from is excessive empathy. What we need to be careful of is to not misdirect that empathy which can easily be based entirely upon emotion rather than sound reasoning based on fact. In order to gain control of the situation we must first work from a foundation of fact so as empathy can be properly channelled.

The reason why I raised this thread is that PTSD claimants are not receiving competent treatment. The reason is that the ACC have taken over control of what PTSD treatment means. All too often there is some self-styled therapist regurgitating someone story and calling that treatment. In the worst horror stories is hypnotherapy inducing false memories and aggravating the problem.
0

#8 User is offline   neddy 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 362
  • Joined: 17-September 03

Posted 03 August 2007 - 11:22 PM

View Postanonymousey, on Aug 3 2007, 06:17 PM, said:

fyi in case it is helpful to abuse and PTSD victims

http://www.leadershi.../1/lg/taus.html



Thank you for that posting it does put the case for Post Traumatic Amnesia and subsequent recollection.

In my close friends case, her memories were not unblocked until she established a trusting relationship with her counsellor who by the way has many years experience and has published papers and post-graduate studies and is acknowledged by peers and others as an expert in child abuse. For the protection of the client I will not reveal the counsellor's identity.

Another reason for the unblocking was a change in medication that allowed the client to remember in dertail what the flashback was about, rather than vague comments that is was intense, highly abusive or sexualised and they then shut off.

There will never be a total solution to the PTSD thing as long as society accepts and puts up with, or denies the existence of abuse.

I don't normally subscribe to Hone Hariwira's political philosophy as he can call a spade a shovel! but his comments tonight re abuse that everyone has to get together in a bipartisan way and find a solution yo this epidemic that plagues our land.

As long as there are arguements as to what is real or not, there is no hope for the abused and that's what gets me going.

Sufferers have the right to be believed.

Just like some of the postings and claims on the board that we may feel are "exagerated" or "overstated" they have to be believed. If a person feels injustice or disbelief of his claim, where are they going for help.

I had hopes this board may provide some answers and your posting Anonymousey, and your posting certainly does that.

As for those who deny the abused's claims, just let it play it out for a while, suspend your judgement and put aside your feelings and let those who want to add to this thoughtful post.


Alan,

I would suggest to you that studies done both here and overseas state that at least 85% of convicted paedophiles will re-offend within 72 hours of release from incarceration. You onlyhave to look at the news in the last two days re German tourist murder, the perpetrator has previous convictions for rape and how often has that occurred recently and the poor wee mite Nia has past away whilst he perps await trial.

A person I know well was sentenced several times for sex offences against minors, He never thought what he did was wrong, Man-Boy love was OK as was his right to rape and sodomise his victim's for his own pleasure, he called it love?????.

I'm not flaming you, it's just you seem umwilling to consider that abuse is so rampant in our sick little part of paradise and to consider we are all part of the problem if we bury our head in the clouds, rather than look around us.

Alan, I hope you can see it, your energy then could be channelled into helping those who need real support and encoragement to come ouy and say "this happened to me and it won't happen to anyone else.

I don't want to fight you, I want you to help beat this insidious abuse.

Neddy
0

#9 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10813
  • Joined: 10-June 06

Posted 04 August 2007 - 11:38 AM

The proposition that I am putting forward is that the ACC a relying upon insufficiently qualified persons to determine recovered memory to the extent that false memories are being generated at a ridiculously high rate in New Zealand. New Zealand statistics are through the roof with those statistics being created by these unqualified assessors and so-called treatment providers which makes the statistics not only unreliable but unbelievable.

In the courts where these assertions of abuse are put under the microscope we are seeing physical impossibility's such as the accused being in a different city or country at the time etc. Of the very small portion that are tried in courts there are a significant number that are falsely accused even though sex crime in New Zealand relies upon a guilty until proven innocent without the reliance upon any evidence presented by the accuser accept regenerated memory.

Having had lengthy discussions with a significant number of ACC Accredited Counsellors and opportunity to compare them with those specifically trained to the level of what is acceptable internationally I am more than satisfied that most create more harm than good to the injured to the extent that recovery is all but impossible under the current ACC funding regime. I am simply stating that the ACC is mismanaging issues that they should not have control over. Injury should be under the control of medically qualified people and certainly not "accredited counsellors" that had gained their accreditation based on a very short course.

These so-called accredited counsellors other people that generate scaremongering false information such as 85 percent of paedophiles will reoffend within 72 hours. This type of figure is absolute nonsense because the vast majority of paedophiles invest a large amount of time and energy cultivating and nurturing their victim it runs into weeks if not months. The majority of paedophiles seek willing and enthusiastic the victims rather than resorting to force. I trust that you can see that the 85% / 72 hours figures are utter nonsense.

Violent sexual abuse statistics are reasonably stable however sexual abuse that involves persuasion and coercion of a person not capable of consent is more cultural and matter which changes by way of history. Sodom and Camorra was certainly a cultural phenomenon just as the practice of Greeks propensity towards older men having sex with young boys as a normalised cultural aspect of society. In New Zealand there are also cultural/racial bias in these crimes.

The remedy is more than the brute force of law to the extent that I believe our schooling should include studies regarding self determination and consent in all aspects of life. The problem is this goes against governments objectives of social engineering population into a compliant population.

Post-traumatic amnesia and subsequent recollection is an incredibly complex issue well outside of the grasp of someone who recently published postgraduate papers let alone "accredited counsellors". The diagnosis potential for repressed memory and the techniques of accessing that memory is something that cannot be entrusted to anyone less than the most highly qualified specialist. As the ACC are not funding the specialists there are insufficient specialist in New Zealand. The result a very large number of artificially generated memory which takes New Zealand statistics way above our counterpart countries indicating a balance of probability that there is a serious problem. These ACC arrangements create additional income for the sexual abuse councillor industry whereby additional workers created and the whole system feeds on itself.

The ACC is now introducing bully tactics whereby the ACC themselves abusing injury sufferers in order to intimidate those making false allegation. The problem is that victims are the very first to surrender his bullying tactics rather than the fraudster.

The ACC created this problem by manipulating treatment protocols and funding. Sufferers of PTSD and similar injuries deserve proper treatment.
0

#10 User is offline   neddy 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 362
  • Joined: 17-September 03

Posted 04 August 2007 - 12:30 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Aug 4 2007, 11:38 AM, said:

T

These so-called accredited counsellors other people that generate scaremongering false information such as 85 percent of paedophiles will reoffend within 72 hours. This type of figure is absolute nonsense because the vast majority of paedophiles invest a large amount of time and energy cultivating and nurturing their victim it runs into weeks if not months. The majority of paedophiles seek willing and enthusiastic the victims rather than resorting to force. I trust that you can see that the 85% / 72 hours figures are utter nonsense.


Alan, Are you going to join us in condemnation of all abuse rather than getting into debate over figures and competency.

I cannot see where you have the competency or qualifications to judge the merits of ACC's counsellors or assessors other than an observer coming with a preset ideology and mindset that is looking for fault.

Again I invite you to channel your energies into something positive, rather than find fault or negativities in every thing that ACC or their accredited suppliers do.

How about some credit where it is due, and not just the legal eagles who win reviews etc.

There are good assessors out there as there are dare I say it, case-managers and doctors who have to work in a system that has been tampered with and changed when legal precedents and challenges shift the goalposts.

I finally would ask you once more to put aside your views on competency and give us some views on how we can help those abused who come to this board for help, this in an offer to work with you, not against you.

Neddy
0

#11 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10813
  • Joined: 10-June 06

Posted 04 August 2007 - 01:08 PM

Condemnation of all abuse is a given. The topic of this thread is centred around the competency of treatment providers.

No condemnation can be made against those who are falsely accused.
No condemnation can be made against those who had had false generated memories produced.

Condemnation must be made against false accusers and incompetence of ACC keeping cheerful accredited counsellors who are responsible for generating a false memory, huge harm in our society throughout New Zealand.

A person suffering from a false memory syndrome continues to suffer almost the same level of suffering a someone who has suffered real experiences. Incompetent treatment or pretending treatment exasperates the damage of and for many years rather than creating benefit. Ultimately either the ACC or the claimant or both give up.

The rate of cure of PTSD in New Zealand his extraordinary low and the rate of false memory is high, which is why I have raised the subject of treatment competency. The ACC limitation of treatment funding is proving to be creating a social phenomena in New Zealand and therefore it is reasonable to say that the ACCs involvement concerning the control of the type, length and breadth of treatment is very harmful.

Those who have been the victim of both abuse followed by inappropriate or incompetent counselling are frequently taught the councillors ideology as an alternative to treatment causing the abused person to start behaviour patterns in the fashion of their councillors in a mentoring style, even becoming councillors themselves. Commonality between the incompetent councillor and the claimant who suffers from this form of secondary abuse is demonstrated by the irrational concepts adopted by the claimant. You will also notice the misinterpretation of various words demonstrating the substandard education that pervades throughout this industry.

I trust you will join me in promoting higher levels of competency of PTSD treatment providers for this very serious problem in New Zealand. I look forward to a more constructive approach in the further development of this thread.
0

#12 User is offline   neddy 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 362
  • Joined: 17-September 03

Posted 04 August 2007 - 01:47 PM

It is not worth the effort .

People will be getting the idea that all we do is fight.

Well this is another fight I withdraw from, not because I'm not prepared to defend the good name of counsellors I know and interact with, but the whole issue has been transfered into a whack a counsellor over the head and I'm not going there.

I offered to work with Alan, my offer was spurned, so be it. I will devote my time finding alternative ways of helping those who were abused, those who have new memories flooding back, and those who need help and guidance from someone who's been at the coalface.

I believe you can only critique that which you know by experiential knowledge, eg walk a mile in my shoes and one cannot blanketly condemn a group of people just because of the incompetence of a few.

To take my thought further, do we condemn all doctor's because a small majority stuff up, or collude with others to make false reports, no way.

I hope that someone will take the case for Renewed memories further and that there may be a few more resources for the sensitive Claimants on the board whom I may have unintentionally reabused by opening up areas in this discussion and my defence of counsellors, to them my most humble apologies as nothing hurts more than secondary abuse and remember, denial of a person's claim to have been abused is also abuse.
0

#13 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10813
  • Joined: 10-June 06

Posted 04 August 2007 - 02:20 PM

Neddy we should not ask busdrivers to fly aeroplanes. If I was to say busdrivers do not fly aeroplanes very well that does not mean to say that I am saying busdrivers are no good. I am just saying that busdrivers should not fly aeroplanes. For the same reason I am saying therapist's should not treat PTSD.

Before we take this issue any further perhaps you could be so kind as to ask the ACC a very very direct question. I have already asked this question and perhaps you could verify the ACC's answer to this question. Does the ACC expect Do they expect their "Accredited Counsellors" to provide treatment for PTSD? You will find that there answer is no. ACC do not expect the councillors to be treatment providers as PTSD is a medical condition requiring medical treatment and that the councillors are not medically qualified. Your next question should be what is expected of the councillors then? You will then get an evasive answer. What is the quality control procedure? You will then get an evasive answer. How was treatment from a qualified professional specialising in PTSD accessed?

I have asked these questions because I was being treated by the hospital by the taxpayer, being transported by taxi to the hospital once or twice a week, until the ACC insurance took over the liability for the injury. It has been downhill since then with no treatment of any sort in place.

The issue I have raised is one of cause and effect. If you lead an injured person to believe that they are getting treatment when they are not or get someone not qualified to do the job of a qualified person then the stakeholders are likely to be disappointed.

True some PTSD sufferers recover spontaneously. Others get screwed up even further. I still get the shakes, cry a lot and suffer from a wide number of other symptoms. Neddy perhaps you can start helping someone you know by leading me towards a true treatment provider. I live on the North shore.
0

#14 User is offline   neddy 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 362
  • Joined: 17-September 03

Posted 04 August 2007 - 03:15 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Aug 4 2007, 02:20 PM, said:

Neddy we should not ask busdrivers to fly aeroplanes. If I was to say busdrivers do not fly aeroplanes very well that does not mean to say that I am saying busdrivers are no good. I am just saying that busdrivers should not fly aeroplanes. For the same reason I am saying therapist's should not treat PTSD.

Before we take this issue any further perhaps you could be so kind as to ask the ACC a very very direct question. I have already asked this question and perhaps you could verify the ACC's answer to this question. Does the ACC expect Do they expect their "Accredited Counsellors" to provide treatment for PTSD? You will find that there answer is no. ACC do not expect the councillors to be treatment providers as PTSD is a medical condition requiring medical treatment and that the councillors are not medically qualified. Your next question should be what is expected of the councillors then? You will then get an evasive answer. What is the quality control procedure? You will then get an evasive answer. How was treatment from a qualified professional specialising in PTSD accessed?

I have asked these questions because I was being treated by the hospital by the taxpayer, being transported by taxi to the hospital once or twice a week, until the ACC insurance took over the liability for the injury. It has been downhill since then with no treatment of any sort in place.

The issue I have raised is one of cause and effect. If you lead an injured person to believe that they are getting treatment when they are not or get someone not qualified to do the job of a qualified person then the stakeholders are likely to be disappointed.

True some PTSD sufferers recover spontaneously. Others get screwed up even further. I still get the shakes, cry a lot and suffer from a wide number of other symptoms. Neddy perhaps you can start helping someone you know by leading me towards a true treatment provider. I live on the North shore.



I do not know anything about the "Shore" or providers in the northern North Island.

Counsellors are there using different methods of therapy eg Cognitive Behaviour Therapy, Group Sessions Psycho Drama to help a person find some reality in their lives.

They cannot help with the symptoms of PTSD, nothing can, but they can help a person to find the tools and the strengths within themselves to enable them to learn to live with the symptoms they present.
The symptoms are for the Psychiatrist to deal with, the day to day survival techniques and even an ear for what's going down is the counsellors. I apologise if I lead you to believe that counsellors offer healing for the symptoms, they offer tools for living with PTSD.

If you meet the ACC Criteria which is based on the following you should be able to obtain a list from your local ACC branch office if not I don't know where other than look for MCANZ, MNAC, or BSc in Clinical Psychology accreditation as accreditation is very difficult to obtain now.


309.81 DSM-IV Criteria for Posttraumatic Stress Disorder

A. The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following have been present:

(1) the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others (2) the person's response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror. Note: In children, this may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated behavior.

B. The traumatic event is persistently reexperienced in one (or more) of the following ways:

(1) recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions. Note: In young children, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the trauma are expressed.

(2) recurrent distressing dreams of the event. Note: In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content.

(3) acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those that occur upon awakening or when intoxicated). Note: In young children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur.

(4) intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

(5) physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

C. Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

(1) efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings, or conversations associated with the trauma

(2) efforts to avoid activities, places, or people that arouse recollections of the trauma

(3) inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma

(4) markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities

(5) feeling of detachment or estrangement from others

(6) restricted range of affect (e.g., unable to have loving feelings)

(7) sense of a foreshortened future (e.g., does not expect to have a career, marriage, children, or a normal life span)

D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (not present before the trauma), as indicated by two (or more) of the following:

(1) difficulty falling or staying asleep
(2) irritability or outbursts of anger
(3) difficulty concentrating
(4) hypervigilance
(5) exaggerated startle response

E. Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than one month.

F. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Specify if:
Acute: if duration of symptoms is less than 3 months
Chronic: if duration of symptoms is 3 months or more

Specify if:
With Delayed Onset: if onset of symptoms is at least 6 months after the stressor

Note that ACC will only accept Sensitive Claims not physical trauma claims.


Note this test is administered in the first four visits to an ACC accredited provider who will forward it to ACC Sensitive Claims for their determination as to whether the criteria have been met. If so rehabilitation and treatment at ACC's cost will start.

Is all this angst all about getting help for your PTSD, because you display a classic symptom of PTSD, anger at all those around you that you percieve are getting help when you are not.

Alan I know from personal experience, you will not find help from anyone while you have this anger against professionals who are trying to help people, rather you should learn to ask for help with no conditions attached. Go with it, try it, if it doesn't work, find someone else until you are comfortable. give them an opportunity to help you change your life and curcumstances, by that I mean not only councellors but others like O'T's Home help agencies and the like.

From experience I've learned I have to step out of my well guarded kennel and take a risk, it was and still is worth it.

I'm trying to offer help here Alan, not criticism or point scoring. I'd like to see you take a punt at learning to have some fun in life instead of finding only negatives. Me over half my life was stuffed up by Abuse, now I'm claiming it back and Fun is the key word. I'm biking, kicking sand on the beach, even flying Kites , yeah goo kid's stuff, but hell it makes up for that which was stolen. I've only got less than half my life left, but I'm going to enjoy it and have fun doing it.
0

#15 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10813
  • Joined: 10-June 06

Posted 04 August 2007 - 04:50 PM

Neddy therapy in the form of cognitive behaviour, group sessions and psychodrama is not actually treatment at just a placebo or time filler until nature takes its course. Unfortunately the results can be catastrophic which is the reason why I have raised this thread.

What does help with PTSD is actual treatment. Treatment can take many forms starting with analogical treatment such as Buspirone, sleeping pills and other mood altering drugs through to justice or revenge. Assisting a person come to grips with the horror of what has happened to them involves a highly qualified specialist with many years of training and even more years of experience and not a 12 week part-time course which the ACC foist upon us.

I note that you speak of gaining an enablement to learn to live with symptoms. This is the same philosophy that the ACC promote, live with the pain rather than arranged for the surgery. The ACC act ensures that treatment will be funded and not merely some cheap and cheerful learn to live with it mumbo-jumbo. The hospital had described to the ACC what level of qualification experience is necessary. The ACC sent me to a homosexual with a ponytail who wanted to give me a hug. The hospital, general practitioner and ACC therapist have all endorsed the ACC 45 form for which the ACC have accepted cover.

I well and truly qualified for a PTSD claim it as the ACC would not provide the transport for independence to go to the "treatment" and the treatment did not meet the criteria for treatment then the ACC have reasoned that I am cured. I do not know how they rationalise that but they did. Now they want me to go to another treatment provider to be recertified as being injured when the only outstanding issue is transport to a suitable treatment provider and the identity of that treatment provider.

You suggest that there may be some anger toward professionals. This is nonsense. The professionals providing treatment at the hospital were making excellent progress and the relationship was good. I just do not see the need to receive a hug from a guy who has a ponytail expressing his personal philosophies more akin to pop psychology than the gold standard of treatment for PTSD. My anger is not at the monster abusers, because they are just the worst kind of animals in New Zealand society as confirmed by the courts who put them there, but at the individual ACC employees who committed perjury and placed me in harm's way.

I am not a person who is the type that cowers in his kennel and have never had any problems functioning outside my comfort zone even in the face of clear and present danger or abuse. You might say I am a robust man's man. For example I am prescribed Buspirone because I get the shakes, intrusive visualisations nightmares and other symptoms. This the same drug they prescribed for soldiers that have been exposed to too much horror. I take hypnotic type sleeping pills to sleep through the nightmares and physical pain. A hypnotic substantially alters the way the brain processes information totally outside of any form of reality. Quite probably I am not even having ordinary dreams or even RIM sleep at all. The gabapentin I am prescribed is also known to be very beneficial to PTSD sufferers. Gabapentin is really an antiepileptic which prevents the brain from firing of irrational random signals and shutting down brainstorms. Even though I am intellectually and psychologically well adjusted I am still human and suffer the effects of overwhelming abuse.

Like you I am not trying to score points but just attempting to open up our thinking so we operate beyond the treatment limits that the ACC are attempting to impose because those limitations have proven to be beyond reasonable doubt a total disaster in New Zealand. The system is broken and we need to fix it. Over the last 30 years with ACC involvement we have seen statistical disaster five times greater than our peer countries. I am saying however that the true figures are not five times higher than other countries but more like about the same. We still have large numbers of victims that need proper treatment and not is pretending treatment such as group role-play and other such nostril irrigating mumbo-jumbo foisted upon people that have already had their trust abused.
0

#16 Guest_mini_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 August 2007 - 05:01 PM

Touche Neddy

You hold onto those positives thoughts and don't let them go!!

Mousey

You really are far too kind to someone who keeps pushing our faces into the fact that there are poor Mrs Pikes in this world, who need to be protected from people in our society who will use any excuse to enable them to do the most ghastly things to our people and babies.

These people do not need our sympathy. Some Mother or Father should have taken some notice of their uncouth behaviour long ago and set them on the straight and narrow.

But for some people that would mean being 'subservient'!!

Lets stop fueling this 'sick puppy' . He can't argue with 'no' one. And he is not happy unless he is arguing, so lets take his toys away!!

Mini
0

#17 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10813
  • Joined: 10-June 06

Posted 04 August 2007 - 05:27 PM

Mini Mrs Pike's murderer, Johnny, was prescribed medication to keep him sane so you would not go round murdering people. ACC accepted the liability to fund the medication. Of course Johnny deserves our sympathy and of course he got both the sympathy and medication in jail from the appropriate treatment providers. I do not blame Mrs Pike directly I blame those who put her in harm's way. The PTSD ACC approved councillor was commissioned by the ACC to tell the staff that they were now safe. Problem solved. ACC staff continue to conduct themselves in exactly the same way as they did before and no doubt no longer dramatised by any thought that they might have contributed towards Mrs Pike's murder.

Proper PTSD treatment also involves properly recognizing and acting accordingly in a dangerous environment. Part of the reason PTSD sufferers develop various symptoms that includes hyper vigilance for purposes of ongoing self-preservation in a dangerous environment.

Unfortunately we are living in a socially engineered society that takes away our right to sue in exchange for a subservient lifestyle. Without the right to sue we have no choice but to become subservient and therefore more vulnerable to other abuses such as employees of the ACC.

Mini this forum was set out so people can express and exchange their viewpoints. Please try and keep on track with the technical points of the discussion rather than emotional rhetoric. This thread addresses whether or not the ACC had gone too far in the restriction of treatment funding and have even manipulated the nature of treatment to the extent that PTSD sufferers are receiving ineffectual treatment or no treatment at all. In my own case it is no treatment at all despite the hospital prescribing in need for treatment with the ACC having liability for the funding of that treatment.
0

#18 User is offline   neddy 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 362
  • Joined: 17-September 03

Posted 04 August 2007 - 08:17 PM

Alan,

Just to give it to you straight up as you say you are a man and can take it.

It has been my lot to have been in a situation where I and other's have been in or on active ACC Sensitive Claims files,

In that time,we were funded by ACC , with ERC and counselling plus the opportunity of in-patient care if in the opinion of a psychiatrist we needed it.

Yes we saw counsellors, who were and are still monitored by degree carrying Clinical Psychologists/Psychiatrists in the form of a DATA or Diagnostic & Treatment Assessments which checks the progress of counselling and treatment, and the ability or lack of it that the client is suffering.

The client also must undertake a Psychiatric Assessment done by a Forensic Psychiatrist at least once a year, more checks and balances.

But the final and most compelling reason as to why the counsellors are doing as well as they can is this and this may offend you and your sensitivities.

I and others I could but will not name for privacy reasons are still alive and functioning on their own in the community because of and not in spite of what you say counsellors and ACC do to them.

I personally owe ACC and my counsellor a debt and thanks I cannot repay,for my life and that my partner in life and my children do not have to worry if they are going to come home to a parent strung up by a rope in the garage.

I'm not being theatrical, I've tried to keep my emotions out of it, but Alan you and your message is so patently wrong compared to mine and other's experiences, sure I've had doubts and niggles at some of the treatment, but that is about fear of the unknown rather than on actualities.

I too could give a list of Medications from Arapax to Zotabs but I won't because as I said before, medication is prescribed by psychiatrists and not even a G.P. can prescribe what is a "certified drug for a certified condition" without the say so of a consultant psychiatrist.
To reiterate, Counselors do not deal with symptoms, that is the US model, here they teach you to live.

If you can find reason to disbelieve my posting, do so, and I'll walk away with the knowledge aquired from my coumselor that there are none so blind who cannot see, or refuse to conceed that other's experiences may prove their model faulty.
0

#19 Guest_mini_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 05 August 2007 - 11:19 AM

Neddy

I too, receive help from a pyscholgist through ACC and having her there when my Mum died recently helped me no end. And I too am grateful to ACC for this.

I beleive we get what we want out of life, but we have to do our part and listen to what we are being told and beleiving it and following advice if we so chose.

This positive attitude you obviously have and I try to have, enables me to exist without being topped up with drugs everyday and seeing the bright side of life most of the time.

I am saying here and I think I have proved myself correct, that someone who knows better than everyone else about everything, obviously has a very serious problem and thinks they are superior to everyone esle.

They try to turn this site into a 'bash ACC' site instead of using it for the support we need to coup with our everyday trials and tribulations including, information and documentation to receive our entitlements from ACC.

I entend to use the forum for those uses, helping others obtain their entitlements and also accepting their help towards me, gratefully.

There are some here that I, and probably a lot of others, will never be able to help.

Mini
0

#20 User is offline   Al9lifes 

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: 16-October 05

Posted 05 August 2007 - 11:36 AM

Quote

This positive attitude you obviously have and I try to have, enables me to exist without being topped up with drugs

Quote

I am saying here and I think I have proved myself correct, that someone who knows better than everyone else about everything, obviously has a very serious problem and thinks they are superior to everyone esle.

Quote

we have to do our part and listen to what we are being told and beleiving it


Yes indeed..
"I am saying here and I think I have proved myself correct"..............obviously has.
a very serious problem
0

Share this topic:


  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users