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Help From The Legal Eagles On This Site

#1 User is offline   Huggy 

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 08:07 PM

Ok folks and all the good legal eagles out there. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions to the below.

ACC apply to police to get a search warrant. Police assist in this by writing affadavit to be used to acquire a search warrant.

ACC and PI turn up at the house along with 3 police to execute the warrant the acc and PI select all items to be removed wether they are relevant or not relevant to what the warrant allows to be seized. The police document these items with errors may i say and remove them to the police station.

All items are in custody of police until a complaint i laid has been completed yet in another paragraph they state the ACC have had access to the paper exhibits and copies of info wanted by acc was done by the police and given to ACC.

Police have stated in writing we are not actively involved in the investigation and are only holding the items on behalf of the ACC. Yet in another paragraph if i want to seek information on the seized items i should be approaching the ACC and not the police.

Who therefore has control of the seized items??????

Next question. It looks to me the police have moved this to ACC hands even tho they still hold custody of the items. So therefore to me its the ACC that are the chiefs with the items. If so......and this is where it gets sticky........The acc being only a Corporation and not customs or serious fraud or police........do they have any right to have the seized items........and if so how long for???????

My opinion is that the ACC shouldnt have the power to seize and hold onto any items acquired in a warrant as they have no authority or power to do this.


Any suggestions or ideas would be brill folks :-)
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#2 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 08:15 AM

I draw your attention to my previous postings on the subject of fraud. Special note should be taken of S198 and S199 of the Summary Proceedings Act which describes the search warrants, procedure and return of items. It particularly describes the search warrant to be under the explosive charge of the police to the exclusion of the ACC. The police may use in the ACC as experts in identifying items. If the police transfer seized items to such an expert a police chain of custody document must identify the whereabouts of each and every item seized. Any item not used for prosecution must be returned within three months. Typically the ACC will try and retain these leftover items as they will invariably be defence exhibits. Obviously the ACC did not want anybody to be mounting a defence against the allegations.

More probably than not the ACC I carrying out a private criminal prosecution rather than the police prosecuting.

If there is a prosecution find out who has submitted that the informations to the court, whether it is the police or the ACC, and find out whether the Crown is prosecuting or whether the ACC is hiring the same law firm that the Crown that normally uses. There is a tremendous difference between the two.

If there is a prosecution it will be very difficult to find legal representation that is both qualified in ACC matters and criminal matters.
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#3 User is offline   Head 

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 08:37 AM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Oct 19 2006, 09:15 AM, said:

I draw your attention to my previous postings on the subject of fraud. Special note should be taken of S198 and S199 of the Summary Proceedings Act which describes the search warrants, procedure and return of items. It particularly describes the search warrant to be under the explosive charge of the police to the exclusion of the ACC. The police may use in the ACC as experts in identifying items. If the police transfer seized items to such an expert a police chain of custody document must identify the whereabouts of each and every item seized. Any item not used for prosecution must be returned within three months. Typically the ACC will try and retain these leftover items as they will invariably be defence exhibits. Obviously the ACC did not want anybody to be mounting a defence against the allegations.

More probably than not the ACC I carrying out a private criminal prosecution rather than the police prosecuting.

If there is a prosecution find out who has submitted that the informations to the court, whether it is the police or the ACC, and find out whether the Crown is prosecuting or whether the ACC is hiring the same law firm that the Crown that normally uses. There is a tremendous difference between the two.

If there is a prosecution it will be very difficult to find legal representation that is both qualified in ACC matters and criminal matters.



Hi i have ACC investigating me at present they sent out a statuory declaration for me to fill in,which i did with a ACC specialist lawyer.

5months on they are still seeking info on me cause they dont have enough to try to prosecute, what they think ive done is uped my wages to get a higher acc weekly wage, its just away acc trys to get ya off the system.

I think we should post photos of the PIs they use on this site to make people aware if they are trying to rehabiliate them selfs and these clowns are watching them.
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#4 User is offline   Huggy 

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 08:33 AM

Alan the Police have said to me on many occasions "its not us that are investigating you, its not us that are seeking a prosecution, this is all the ACC.

Everything is still in Police custody because of the Police Complaint Authority are looking into the way the warrant was executed. This of course delays ACC in their actions.

CEO of ACC explicitely said there will be no interview until ACC have the items from the police but that this interview would be delayed because of the PCA.

However after pointing out some lies to the CEO that her employee has told her i get another letter very promptly saying that i will be contacted by the end of the week for a interview. I have cancelled the interview and asked for any questions to be put in writing.

Very strange how there would be no interview or questions then after the lies that are in writing were pointed out to the CEO and within days a interview then questions are arranged.

I am still waiting on my questions and will run it past the solicitor when the time comes.
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#5 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 10:09 AM

You need to acquire from the criminal court registrar a copy of the application for the search warrant. The ACC must have a proper reason to believe that you have committed a crime before a search warrant can be issued. While the ACC can apply for a search warrant it is the police that must carry it out and take responsibility for it. The police it should have made sure that they understood the nature of the crime the ACC are accusing you of some lead to make sure that they themselves were not committing a crime by taking away items not related to any potential crime.

More probably than not the ACC are on a massive fishing expedition. Search warrants are not allowed to be issued for a fishing expedition.


If you are uncertain about what's going on all feel you need some extra information contact me directly. Contact me anyway.

You will be able to talk with me in a frank and open way about what you think they might be investigating you for. If it is bogus we need to put a stop to it before it gets out of hand.

If you are guilty of something small label tried to make it something back so as best to quantify everything with precision. If you are innocent you will get my full support. If you are guilty of something I would still assist the justice process so you are not attacked for something greater than what you have done.

Going by the international figures in comparison with the ACC's own figures we either have five times more fraud in this country than other countries or the ACC have got it wrong x 5 and are using fraud accusation as a disentitlement mechanism or a negotiating tool.
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#6 User is offline   MG 

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 12:48 PM

I think ACC uses the "fraud" investigations as a gaslighting tool designed to either bully claimants off the scheme or uncover information that can be used to exit them from the scheme anyway. I have often seen "fraud" investigations that fail to reveal evidence of criminal offending but the results of which are sent to the branches with recommendations about the claimant's purported activity levels etc. This material is then fed into the assessment vortex so that assessments can be written justifying ACC's decisions to terminate claims. BTW, this is pretty much from UNUM Provident's bag of dirty tricks so it's no surprise to see ACC deploying the same stuff here.
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#7 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 12:59 PM

MG
very true. In my own case I have a capacity of two hours per day fragmented throughout the day. The fraud investigators were not provided this information and reported back to the ACC that large numbers of people I have spoken to reported that I was able to do certain things. This was extrapolated to the point where the ACC thought I was working based on the private investigators reports. The ACC at no stage ever compared the information on the file with the so-called reports.

My entitlements were cancelled because the Corporation thought I was working. There has been no assessment of any description such as WCAP. The ACC had not distinguish the meaning of the word work as it relates to the act such as working towards rehabilitation or working in the sense of carrying out work task activities for earnings.

There is no suggestion as to whether I was working one hour per week or working full-time. The court had given the ACC until the end of September to describe the so-called work at each material time. The ACC failed to comply and was given a two-week extension but still failed to comply.

Any suggestions?
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#8 User is offline   MG 

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 02:41 PM

Review/appeal ACC's decision to stop your weekly compensation. Provide a current report from your GP on your physical capacities and one from an occupational physician (if you can find one not contaminated by ACC).
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#9 User is offline   Huggy 

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 02:48 PM

Alan i have sent a letter to the police and to the courts asking for the affadavit to be released. The police answered with its still under investigation so we therefore wont disclose the affadavit. The courts answered they are not covered under the privacy act or the official information act and if i want it released i have to apply to the court and go in front of a judge. This document will get released if the investigation is dropped or if it ACC bring a charge against me.

Funny thing is i asked the police about the irrelevant information that was removed from my property.....i also asked about the items that are missing off the inventory.....there answer is we are not actively involved in this case and that i have to approach ACC.

I have approached ACC and the CEO answered that as the police executed the search warrant i need to apply to them for the info. The 2 of them are pushing the blame to one another.

The Officer in charge of the PCA has said maybe i should come in and see if i can find what is missing......however on thinking about it why should i fix their cock ups.......they can sort it out between themselves.....

If they cant sort it out i will lay a charge of theft against the ACC
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#10 User is offline   MG 

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 03:33 PM

Huggy - I think you should be getting your lawyer to handle this stuff - it's quite complex.
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#11 User is offline   Battleaxe 

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Posted 30 October 2006 - 04:58 PM

In my view, possession is 9/10ths of the law. So if the Police have the items then they are responsible for their care and wellbeing.
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#12 User is offline   Huggy 

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Posted 30 October 2006 - 07:59 PM

Well the CEO did say if i was concerned at stuff gone missing to lay a complaint with the police..........well you guessed it i have laid my complaint with the police and was told by the person doing the PCA that i had to do the complaint with the District Commander........cant go much higher than that lol........wonder how long they will take now.
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