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Initial Assessments Initial Assessments

#1 User is offline   m_a_f_org 

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 07:27 PM

Thanks for the info easyrider and billybob I appreciate that.

Has anyone heard of Dr Keith Laubscher for Pain Management? (I phoned Dr Dryson and asked him who he recommended and he said Laubscher) and does anyone have a list of ACC contractors for pain management specialist? Laubscher is not back till monday so I have been unable to ring and ask if he is on acc's list of contractors, and if so book my appointment.

In the meantime I have prepared a letter to send to my case manager about all of these appointments she has booked without asking for my preferences on who to see, I couldn't send it yet until I contact Laubscher, and today I have received copies of my case managers referral letters and documents she has already sent out to the people she has choosen. Buggar my letter didn't go off before she sent all this stuff out, now when I try and change things around I am sure she is going to say its too late apts are booked, referrals and documents already sent out, what will I do about this, can I force her to cancel hers and book my preferences?

I will tape my assessments.
wish I had someone to take with me? does anyone know of anyone in Auckland who could act as my support.

These are the people I am booked to see:

Mr Ralf Schnabel Psychologist (is this appointment actually necessary, could I decline this??)
(this referral letter to Schnabel is a bit lists:)
1. what is claimants perception of her future regarding her physical ability and pain focus?
2. are there any non accident issues that are impacting on claimants potential to return to work?
3. do you discern any psychological aspects directly related to claimants incapacity?
4. what physchological and physical approaches does claimant currently use in regards to her self-management of ongoing injury effects? please list positive (eg positive self talk) and negative (eg poor self pacing) approaches and your comments.
5. would you please provide a plan that, in your opinion, would be helpful for psychological support alongside physical rehabilitation.
6. any other recommendations or comments regarding the claimant?

also booked Mrs Jill Brice Career Services (which I hope to change to see Richard Bernall Career Services
Dr Evan Dryson (my choice)
FCE Systems Auckland Bob Sellars (which I hope to cancel altogether)

worried about all this, if anyone knows anything more about these people and the assessments supportive info is great.


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Posted 09 January 2004 - 10:41 PM

Sounds like they have gone into overdrive.
From what you have written, in my opinion, it would appear that they are out to get you one way or another. The whole thing stinks of some sort of pre-ordained process to fish for ways to support actions that they have planned. It would appear that they have not given you a choice of assessors or at the very best an abridged one and this is in breach of your rights as they must provide you with a list from which to choose.
On what basis do the request psycological assessment. Do not trust them and contact your local group they spin a plausable line of bulldust whilst they smile and shaft you.
Make sure that everything is in writing and definately do as you suggest regarding them contacting you doctor and ensure that he understands that you must be informed of all contact they have with them with copies to you.
If as I believe they are trying to shaft you in some way, it is imperitive that you have a papertrail and I also suggest that you have a witness to all dealings with them as well as a tape record of any assessments, meetings.
This may seem a little paranoid but my own experiences with them have proven the wisdom of this course of action.
Do not be worried about making things difficult for them because if their intent is as I suspect they will try to ride roughshod over your rights and rob you blind.

Here is the only contact I know of in the Auckland area.
There may be others


Contact: ph 09.482.1502 or e-mail [email protected]

#3 User is offline   Easyrider 

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 11:15 PM

I think you should insist on you having the choice of assessors as per regulations allow, get hold og Alan at the no show above, tell him you need a support person at attend the assessments with you, if he cant do it get back to me. Email you case manager and tell her you insist on your right, do not talk with them on the phone. Get back to me on my Email if you require any further imformation or a chat on the phone to point you in the right direction.

#4 User is offline   Tipster007 

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 11:41 PM

Hi m_a_f_org, ;)

Rather than try to baffle yourself with science on this procedure, it would simply be better to REMIND your case manager that your Individual Rehabilitation Plan (IRP) must be put in place by agreement with you personally on a one on one basis and that failure by the Corporation to adopt this correct procedure is totally unacceptable and is therefore subject to review/appeal if they choose to ignore this fact.

It seems to me, looking in from the outside, that the ACC are calling all the shots here without having an agreed IRP in place. Legislation requires the ACC to put your IRP together in consultation with the claimant and then require the claimant to sign off the agreement, so as to insure that the claimant fully understands the entitlements and so that those entitlements are then likely to achieve the desired outcome (whatever that may be).

If the ACC have not followed this protocol with you then pull them back into line to make sure they are not jumping the gun on you in order to expedite the process for their own benefit.

Under no circumstances whatsoever should you be told which Inital Medical Assessor the ACC are sending you to when you have not even been put through the inital Occupational Assessment as yet. The ACC are, in doing this, for all intent and purpose prejudging the outcome of any such assessment and if that isn't bad enough they have also neglected to apply the fact that you are fully entitled to CHOOSE the medical assessor of your choice (That goes for the Occupational Assessor as well).

Whilst it is advisable to try to establish a reasonably good Occupational/Medical assessor (for the most part that is purely POT LUCK) and therefore it is of more greater importance to ensure that you have a good IRP in place that will hopefully assist you with the tools required to ensure that you get the adaquate rehabilitation you need to assist you back to vocational independence. (The occupational/medical assessor/s will use that IRP as a blue print for his/her recommendations) It is therefore a very important document.

Make sure you insist on getting an occupational assessment that truely reflects your choice of rehabilitation and make sure that any employment options put forward by the occupational assessor are options that are within the capabilitaies of your injury status (otherwise refuse to have them included in the report or at the very least make the occupational assessor give a fully detailed account of why he/she believes you could do any option that is in dispute).

Good luck with it all..


#5 User is offline   Britts 

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Posted 10 January 2004 - 07:17 AM

Just busy going through the IOA process myself and questioning the IOA Assessor over the usual exagerations in the report. They don`t like it either, but I feel it`s important to do this.

Should you end up in review/court or such and you haven`t challanged it, they are likely to say... The Claimant never disputed the report at the time.

Chances are you were either ill at the time, or didn`t realise the relevance of the assessors (occupational/medical) little mistakes or misquotes that pop up all the way through the report.

I`m sure many on the forum have had reports done on them and thought "that`s not what I meant", they must have misunderstood me.

The mistakes are subtle sometimes but deliberate, and will be used against you, should the need arise.

Somone (IDB perhaps) posted a really good article from the States on Medical whores and it would be good if they could repost it. (please)

The Occupational Whores write their reports in a similar fashion.

I agree with these other guys about the importance of getting things in writing, and don`t be too shy to question everything you`re not happy with. You can`t offend these people as most have no heart.

All the best

Cheers Britts

#6 User is offline   m_a_f_org 

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Posted 10 January 2004 - 01:38 PM

Thanks everyone for your helpful comments.

esp flowers I have contacted Alan who will give me some help and support with this matter, irehab is not complete, I didn't have a proper plan so I should not have to undergo all these assessments. I am doing a letter to cm and hopefully gp supports me with this my aim is to cancel all these assessments and then focus on a proper rehabilitation plan that I will probably draft up.

also I will probably ask my gp for a referral to a hand specialist for a documented diagnosis and prognosis and maybe mri of my injury instead of acc focusing on my fibromyalgia.

has anyone been to Clayton Brown, or John Tonkin if so what did they recommend, and just out of interest has anyone had any hand surgery and found it to be beneficial.

cheers ;)

#7 User is offline   Kiwee 

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Posted 10 January 2004 - 05:12 PM

Yes, Medical Whores Do Exist

It is an unfortunate fact of life that medical whores exist, and in alarming abundance. They are an embarrassment to the profession and should be routed from it; yet, they are not. To do so legally is almost impossible. In some of the more outrageous cases, the medical whore is known throughout the local medical profession, the legal profession, and are even a laughing stock of of the local judiciary. They are, of course, the spawn of insurance companies.

If you are sent, by an insurance company, to an "Independent Medical Evaluation" (IME) - that's what they call it - nine times out of ten you will be sent to one of the insurance company's medical whores. The purpose of the alleged "examinations" is to provide the insurance company with a good excuse not to make good on it's contract. (oops - pardon me: your insurance policy is not a contract; it used to be.) The insurance scam is that your state essentially puts a gun to your head, forcing to you purchase (specifically automobile) insurance policies. The insurance companies then collect the payments but then try to find every way, legal or illegal, but dishonest, *not* to pay you in the event of an accident. It used to be called "highway robbery", now in doublethink, it's called insurance, an oxymoron under current conditions, if there ever was one.

Government and insurance have forced their way into every aspect of your life. Physicians must carry malpractice insurance which is outrageously overpriced. Many "physicians" of middle grade find lucrative positions functioning as the whores for insurance companies. No matter how personable they may appear, they are not your friends. They are the worst of scum, not deserving of the title "physician".

Insurance companies have now developed a new way to crucify you. Take a large semirural area that depends heavily on one urban center that is not too large. Asheville in Western North Carolina happens to be perfect. Many people from WNC and from the foothills area rely on Asheville for specialized medical services. Insurance companies can buy off physicians or groups of physicians in the urban area, providing them with the names of people with claims against the given insurance company. You, then, are referred to some specialist or group of specialists quite unwittingly by a known and perfectly fine physician. You go to the specialist who then, because your name is on the list, writes a typical whore's report. Note that you have gone to this specialist as a patient, and been betrayed professionally; this is *not* an IME. The insurance company now has something better than its own IME, to use against you: your own physician.

An example:
There is a large nest of neurologists here in Western North Carolina, headquartered Asheville, who are servants of at least one insurance company known to me. I am in litigation against this particular insurance company. I unwittingly sought a neurological exam from one of the nest's neurologists. This particular neurological whore was highly recommended by several physicians whom I trusted regarding knowledge and integrity. Their recommendations were, I'm sure, based on technical grounds; I'm equally sure they had no idea of the total absence of integrity, morals or just common decency of the whore in question.

My partner made the first appointment for me. Oddly, *his* name was in their computer and it was so announced. Explanation: he received a fairly rude demand for an IME about a year ago. But, the space for who had requested the IME was left blank. Being in no condition to play games, he simply forwarded all material to his attorney, and forgot about it. He is also in litigation against the same insurance company as I am; in fact, the cases have been joined.

Guess what came back from my "own" neurologist? A report that is exactly what my insurance company would have wanted. The earmarks listed below were all present, right down to the outright lies of what actually happened, and what was said, as well as the inconsistencies of position. This particular medical whore then actually saw me under false pretenses, outwardly pretending to see me as a patient, while secretly treating my visit, to be paid by Medicaid, as an IME for State Farm "Insurance". The exact same kind of fraud and report was perpetrated on my partner. We immediately sent Certified Letters, RRR , revoking all authorizations for the release of any information to anyone. I've planned an endless slow sequence of punitive measures to be taken against the entire nest. Stay tuned. The essence of attack is surprise.


You MUST protect yourself, since the laws of our supposedly free and fine country are designed to aid and abet the outright thievery by the insurance industry, whose only interest is greed, and with a complete disregard for human life. You attorney will not always be there to advise you, even if he is a really good one; he does, after all, have other cases, some may be even worse than yours.

Understand that the following is a set of suggestions. Insurance law differs from state to state, so, check with your attorney before actually following any suggestions.

How to defend yourself against the medical whore in an IME

1) [Check with your attorney] In most states you may not refuse
a medical examination out of hand, but you may refuse a SPECIFIC
physician. Check around. The medical profession pretty well
knows who the whores are. Nurses are often more knowledgeable
and forthcoming than physicians. The closed club still exists
to some extent.

2) Bring a friend who can attest to the time spent in examination,
and what actually happened and what was said. No matter what,
is said or done, this person is *not* to leave your side.
Be as insistant as necessary. Take notes with times, or have
your witness do it. Use an audio tape recorder.

3) If possible, bring someone to record and video tape the entire
procedure. If the videotaping is refused, make sure you get the
the refusal on tape.

4) Do not be afraid of of offending the IME "physician"; they're out
to crucify you in any event. Ask questions, especially if you are
taping the event. These are not Gods but human filth and should be
treated accordingly.

5) When asked a question, answer only the question, no more.
The whore will make up answers for you anyhow. Give as little
information as possible. Whatever you do or say will be twisted
and perverted to be used against you. Volunteer nothing.

6) If you have had enough torture, or most especially if the
examiner is actually hurting you, announce that the examination is
over and leave. When it comes to this, make sure that the
announcement is being taped and your reason is stated.

7) Spend the time and effort to get examinations by truly competent
and conscientious physicians. They are becoming scarcer and
harder to find. Rule of thumb: genius recommends genius.
But, people change and this is not failsafe, but it's the best
you can do, unless you know an appropriate one personally.

8) Some medical whores have, by their consistent outrageousness,
become known throughout the medical and legal profession, and
even become known by judges who will dismiss them, or laugh them
out of a courtroom. In this case, your defense has already been
made for you. This is all too rare. The obvious cannot always
be counted upon.

Top of Page

The Earmarks of a Whore's "Narrative" and "Examination"

1) It will *almost* conform to the truth.
but, over all, it will be inconsistent with itself and with
known and measurable fact.

2) It will not read like what you remember from the examination.
The actual examination will be perfunctory and short, including
a few attacks with pins and hammers to make it look official.
The report will call this a "complete neurological examination".
Radiologicals will be gone through quickly and casually.
Radiologists' reports will be criticized, their findings declared
unimpressive or inconclusive, and dismissed. No conclusive tests
will be either recommended, suggested or ordered. Often they
will even be advised *against*. This is a new trick tacked onto
a diagnosed "somatoform" disorder (not even recognized as a disease!)
that claims the patient suffers greatly (AND MUCH MONEY IS SPENT)
in seeking further physiogenic causes for your problem. This
seeking is, of course, "typical" of someone diagnosed with a
somatoform disorder. Documenting the abuses of logic and statistics
required to use this whorish reasoning could fill a multitude of
very thick volumes. [See below in 11) on DSM-IV]
The somatoform diagnosis is an attempted checkmate to prevent
you from seeking further medical treatment, and to prevent you
from obtaining just compensation for the damage done you.

3) There will be innuendoes concerning your physical symptoms or aspects
or your personality. Unimportant things will be declared
"interesting". The patient's symptoms might even be subtly
ridiculed, even being referred to as bizarre. The point of this is,
of course, being to call you a liar, without actually doing so.
Implications will be made that you are either stupid or delusional,
by comparing what you may have said about a particular test,
and what the whore states actually happened; what he states happened
will, of course, be a total fabrication. Of course, the whore is
the expert and knows better.

4) Innuendoes can be conveyed simply by putting certain words like "pain"
or "stress" in quotes, implying, without saying, that that these
symptoms are not real, or may not exist. A distinction will be made,
said outright or implied by innuendo, between pain and pseudo pain,
stress or pseudo stress, as if the two were objectively
distinguishable; they are not. Pain is pain. The word stress is
used in vague ways, that will confuse heavy duty stress with minor
annoyances so as to make your serious stress *appear* to be a minor
annoyance. There is no way (not even in autopsy) of distinguishing
between pain and "pseudopain" (quotes meaning to imply that there
is no such thing).

5) Quotes will be attributed to you; about half will be erroneous
in one way or another, sometimes quoting you as saying the opposite
of what you actually did say. Sometimes a slight change of word
or phrase that by itself appears harmless. Nothing that a medical
whore does is harmless.

6) There will only be results reported that are subjective to the
to the examiner, like reflexes and muscle strength. No objective
evidence will be present, even though some numbers may be present.
No objective tests will be made. The examiner simply makes up the
numbers anyway he chooses.

7) Irrelevant remarks will appear such as "the patient didn't elaborate"
(of course, the whore will not have asked for elaboration.)
while important statements by you will be completely ignored and absent
from the narrative. You might see, "I found it interesting that, ..."
purporting to cast doubt on a particular result, or an importance
where there is none. The report will consist mainly of what was
"apparently" felt or said by you the patient (ignoring any existing
documentation) and what was "interesting", without any explanation of
why a particular thing may have been interesting; more innuendo.

8) Any previous diagnosis will be denigrated indicating that your
complaints are not due to the accident or that your problems may even
have been caused by a treating physician. The key word here is
"iatrogenic". The most perverse tactic is simply the declaration
that there is nothing wrong with you.

9) The "green poultice clause" will invariably be present, stating that
the the patient will feel much better if given some money, to reduce
"stress", implying that this is the source of the, by now, merely
alleged symptoms.

10) There will be a high density of "medical" assertions with few if any
corroborative facts or explanations. Assertions and conclusions
may often exceed the actual area of alleged competence of the
"examiner". A neurologist is NOT a psychiatrist. An orthopedist
is NOT a rheumatologist, etc.

11) Scientists cite literature references, whores never do.

12) There will be *no* suggestions for further tests ruling out other
possibilities. The whore knows what the answers "are" before ever
laying eyes on you; he does not want the truth known.

13) There will be an attempt to shift a physical cause to an ill defined
psychiatric cause, which is not so secure with regard to
damages in court. The key words here are "psychosomatic" (rarely
used) and "somatoform", the implication being that there is nothing
physically wrong with you. This brings the current incarnation of
the psychiatric Bible, DSM-IV into play, DSM-IV pretends to be a
definition book for professionals solely for the purpose of
communication (read the preface). It is in fact a manual for
insurance companies so that they can decide how best to cheat,
thieve and rob their policy holders. Compare the entries in
DSM-IIIR and DSM-IV for 300.70 "Somatoform Disorder not otherwise
Specified" to understand how such a misdiagnosis results in an
insurance company being able to lock you into a catch-22 of
benefit denial. The change from DSM-IIIR to DSM-IV has been
instituted for precisely this purpose. This Bible of psychiatric
diagnoses is published by the American Psychiatric Association,
to which every American should complain.

Coming up: How to get even with the whore physician that is ruining or has ruined your life - stay tuned

#8 User is offline   Down 

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Posted 10 January 2004 - 06:07 PM

Kiwee...what a gem of an article :D


Yes, Medical Whores Do Exist

Here is an other area were this DSM IV is used


#9 User is offline   grumpy 

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Posted 10 January 2004 - 08:28 PM


I had an appointment with Evan Dryson last year. His report was incorrect and misleading (full of lies) I wrote to Dryson asking him to amend his report. He replied telling me it was ACC who commissioned the report and that I would need to talk to my cm to have it amended.
I am happy to attend any assessment with you and I challenge others within your area to put themselves forward and attend these assessments with you and anyone else.

#10 User is offline   Britts 

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Posted 11 January 2004 - 11:08 AM

Hi Kiwee,

Thanks for finding that article on Medical Whores, it`s a real cracker.

I see the link you provided is going to run an article on how to get even with them.

We`ll have to keep an eye out for that one, and hope we can apply their methods on our own Whores. Medical and Occupational!!

They both apply the same slimey tactics.

Cheers Britts.

#11 User is offline   Shannon 

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  Posted 12 January 2004 - 09:35 AM

Hi M A F Org

I am from the Akl area and am in a similar situation to yourself, where by my casemongrel has lined up similar assessments for me as yours has for you.
I have made many alterations to the IRP which no doubt he will not be happy with when he receives it back by due date,... plus have written an array of letters which I will start sending off mid week to get right up his nose.

Then if casemongrel persists with his regurgitated twaddle and does not back down and do IRP as required by legislation then my thoughts were to invite all/any interested acc claimants that were able to attend all/any off my assessments with me armed with videos, tape recorders, legislation, Rod you would be very welcome too, the more the merrier.

United we stand

Therefore M A F org I am quite willing to attend your assessments with you as support.

case mongrel/acc I for one will never roll over, never give in, never give up, never, never, never.....I know my rights

#12 User is offline   BillyBob 

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Posted 12 January 2004 - 08:17 PM

way to go shannon :D
We need more like you to stick it back up the mongrels.


#13 User is offline   m_a_f_org 

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Posted 12 January 2004 - 08:34 PM

Hi Shannon

thanks for the offer of support - I will let you know - I have some letters lined up to send - then maybe a new irp to send - so this will upset them I am sure - the main thing is I hope I am able to stop this assessment process and go back to the beginning for a proper diagnosis/prognosis of my injury. Let me know how you are getting on.

thanks everyone else for support and info, I am glad to have found you.

Cheers ;)

#14 User is offline   m_a_f_org 

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Posted 12 January 2004 - 08:37 PM

PS everyone, I remember reading about medical assessments and someone saw Preston in Hamilton for an IM I think.., could they please post on this site or email me his phone number, full name, practice and details just in case I may need them.


#15 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 09:41 PM

came from other site
From: Dachie1 (Original Message) Sent: 15/01/2004 12:11 p.m.
First timer to this site, so bear with me!
Firstly thank you all for your opinions as they certanily give me comfort knowing that I am not alone in this terrible system called ACC.
I could write a book , but will at this stage ask for HELP
Being sent for a IOA and onto a IMA.
I live in the Wairarapa and because of my injury have asked for the assessments to be done here.
I have been given 2 names for the IMA and a list to come.
The 2 that I have are A Portious and W Turner Christchurch..
Your opinions I would appreciate.
Reply here and on there if possible please

#16 User is offline   Easyrider 

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  Posted 15 January 2004 - 11:37 PM

First write to your case manager and ask for a full list of all the medical assessors in your area, when you go to your IOA make sure that is taped and make sure you have someone with you that understands the system and how it works. Make sure you question all the ocupations they say you can do. For your IMA it is imperative that you have the assessment taped and that your support person knows how ACC like the reports to be written. If the assesor is asked the right questions you will keep him honest, as they wont put what ACC want if you have all the questions and answers on tape. What you have to ask the Doctor is in your opinion after reading my file and your examination of my whole person as per ACC regs state with my injuries can i carry out the Jobs identified by the IOA. If you need any help please email me.

#17 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 10:50 PM

I was looking for another document the other day and came accross this.

Bit of ACC and assessors being told what to do

Attached File(s)


#18 User is offline   MG 

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 06:24 PM

Interesting - IMHO, this document reveals what a complete and utter fraud the occupational assessments actually are. This woman admits she has no real qualifications to assess disability or capacity for work but, nonetheless, this is her pot of gold. Nothing at all about what happens if a claimant actually can't work fulltime during "work trials" -does she report this honestly to ACC? Like hell she does. Instead she rings up the GP and manipulates them into deserting their patient. Notice, too, the frequent use of the word "insurer" in the document. The only "insurers" currently involved in the ACC system are the managing insurers for accredited employers. IMHO, this lot are even worse than ACC and really only there to maintain a foothold in the personal injury market until their seven-figure investment in the National Party pays off, ACC is privatized and the insurers cream off the claimants. When that happens, the assessors (both occupational and medical) who have proved themselves to be the most ruthless at shafting claimants will be hired to do the same to the insurers' "stock", while any thought of rehabilitation will be forgotten. IMHO, we must keep pressure on the government to acknowledge the Armstrong report and make substantive changes to the ACC scheme, including the end of the assessment production-line approach to "rehabilitation". The draft response I saw from the Department of Labour was most discouraging.

#19 User is offline   Sparrow 

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 09:09 PM

Funny you should bring up about Dachie.
I can give a most satisfactory update on this person. The ACC were just absolutely terrible to this person. Unbelievable stuff. Actually the CM should be sued for endangerment and misfeasence. We await that still.

Well a Support group came to the fore in this case. The CM has been put in her place for now and the mediation she called for, not the claimant went smack in her face. A most satisfactoiry Mediation was carried out and the claimant has had some very good big entitlements.

This person suffered acute medical misadventure at the hands of Fred Phillips and I hope no-one on here ever lets him get his knife near them. for one thing he denied bothching the surgery big time and then wanted nothing to do with his patient and left them to their fate. ACC grabbed the opportunity to force this person into work but thankfully just as things got too hot the Support group stepped in. A huge thanks to the persons involved and Dachie for his/her integrity and determination.
This is one of the worst cases I have ever seen but things are settling now thankfully.
See, it pays to stand up against the foe, you will win in the end provided you get help!! And I am not advertising here but perhaps I should?????
Another thing is that Fred Phillips is now an ARESESSOR for ACC. Just another case of big time baddies/toadies to ACC> BEWARE OF THIS MAN~~!!!

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 03:16 PM


Where is persons location?

Or does Fred Phillips travel around??

Cheers Mini

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