ACCforum: Petition - Again - ACCforum

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Petition - Again

#1 User is offline   watcha 

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: 15-November 03

Posted 25 February 2006 - 10:20 AM

Refer to magnacarta's last post on the CEO Replies To Concerns thread re the petition.

Gloria and a few others excepted .......... Like Magnacarta, I am beginning to wonder if all the contributors on this forum are genuine, the petition is such an important issue that I simply can't understand why everyone is procrastinating over it. While Nero fiddled.......??

Most spend nearly all their time bleating and whining, an important topic is posted and before you can say "the new CEO is not going to do anything to upset the apple cart", most contributors are off and running on their same old theme and bugger the topic - Oh dear, ACC screwed me again.

Of course you got screwed because you spent all the time bleating and doing nothing constructive; well, now is your opportunity to really make a contribution to the cause by helping organise a petition, get signatures, perhaps even lodge your personal petition if organising one is physically too taxing - it only takes one, remember that every citizen is entitled to petition parliament - exercise that right, and that's one right that ACC can't deny.

Get on with it - I have.
0

#2 User is offline   magnacarta 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 484
  • Joined: 22-October 04

Posted 25 February 2006 - 11:04 AM

Watcha, read 22 times so far and not a dickybird of a response from any forum member - we are wasting our time - refer back to new posting on "CEO responds to concerns" thread.
0

#3 User is offline   Tomcat 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2158
  • Joined: 14-September 03

Posted 25 February 2006 - 11:29 AM

Greetings,
Whangarei is working on this... and I am here in the "far north".
0

#4 User is offline   hillsy 

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 0
  • Joined: 19-July 05

Posted 25 February 2006 - 12:22 PM

YEP!!!

we're getting stuck into it up north, not just the name gathering but the delivery system too.

A few newly aquired bells and whistles may prevent the next attempt at petion from being left unheard.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, lets use a way the cat won't be expecting.

More to follow.

Peace
Hillsy
0

#5 User is offline   fairgo 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 290
  • Joined: 15-September 03

Posted 25 February 2006 - 04:33 PM

So what's it to be? An all out effort to get a new petition or sit back and twiddle thumbs. I can relate to all that has been said before after all it was my name on the bloody petition in the first place...... to see it sidelined was disheartening, to see it fall off the planet was worse, to see people now trying to justify why they are not doing anything is deeply disappointing.

I am more than happy to send in a private petition once again and organise a collection of signatures locally but I want to be damn sure that this time parliament has to abide by their own rules for hearing a petition. How do we guarantee that?


Sorry to be blunt and bitchy but hey... I get tired, sore and frustrated too.........
0

#6 User is offline   Hatikva 

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 12-June 05
  • LocationWop Wops

Posted 25 February 2006 - 04:55 PM

Folks ...

Are we to submit a number of individual petitions or one "combined" petition - ie a single petition with a number of signatures?

Which would be the best route? Or should we attempt both?

What I don't personally want to do is send the wrong wording ...

Is the old petition here (in full) on the site? I did a quick search for petitions but didn''t quite find it (yet) ... Checked the clerk of the house site - it only has the title of the old petition but not the wording of the entire petition. This is all that's there ....

Quote

PET  Petition 2002/121 of Denise Allen Powell and 522 others  (17 June 2004) Requesting that the House recommend a select committee inquiry into ACC's claims management practices. (presented by Sue Bradford)
(referred to the Government Administration Committee


As I recall, weren't the greens going to re-present this petition in the new parliament?

Cheers
0

#7 User is offline   Tomcat 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2158
  • Joined: 14-September 03

Posted 25 February 2006 - 05:09 PM

Greetings,
PDF file for download is here.

http://www.accforum....owtopic=38&st=0
0

#8 User is offline   Hatikva 

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 12-June 05
  • LocationWop Wops

Posted 25 February 2006 - 05:49 PM

Thanks, Tomcat - downloaded the beast.

Also sent a short email to Sue Bradford and asked if she would consider re-submitting the original petition to parliament.

Magnacarta - you'd noted some points in previous postings that related to things that we should consider in a petition -

Although I suspect it'll have as much chance as a snowball in hell, willing to write my own letter/petition to parliament - just want to make sure it has a fighting chance and addresses the issues that we really need to identify.

Did get this far!

Quote

Modern petitions
New Zealandís Parliament allows any New Zealander to make a petition to the House of Representatives on any subject Ė provided they have first
tried all other methods to redress their grievance. The House is advised of the petition and it is then referred to a select committee for study. Select committees can report back to the House with a recommendation on what action should be taken. Often petitions are referred to the Government for its consideration. The Government must then report to the House on what action it will take.

A petition may or may not have any practical consequence, but making it does ensure that your opinion or grievance is heard and is given some thought by Members of Parliament.

How to do it
To make a petition to the House of Representatives, obtain information from the Office of the Clerk. This sets out the rules you must follow on how your petition must be worded and who can present it. Donít start gathering signatures until you have read this information!

Find out more!
Office of the Clerk of the House of Representatives
Parliament Buildings
Wellington
Tel: (04) 471 9999 extn 8194
Fax: (04) 473 2439


Even found the book of instructions (if all else fails, maybe I should read the bloody thing ...)

Attached File(s)


0

#9 User is offline   fairgo 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 290
  • Joined: 15-September 03

Posted 25 February 2006 - 05:55 PM

Here is the original petition

Attached File(s)


0

#10 Guest_Percy_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 25 February 2006 - 06:18 PM

Bit of strong talk there Magnacarta and Watcha.
How about answering my posting.
Do we send one from all members, individual or Support Groups?
If we decide to send one individually, well, how about some sort of draft for us to use as a basis??!
Or do we use the one Fairgo had rejected??

It is ACC case management we are wanting changed is it not as well as Rehab etc???
0

#11 User is offline   hillsy 

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 0
  • Joined: 19-July 05

Posted 25 February 2006 - 07:50 PM

Good evening all,

It took only 30-odd years to turn an excellant social developement idea into a clumsy parody of a typical American bad faith insurance company.

Percy: I know of petitions lined up from individuals and groups. It is the delivery that is determining the timeframe.

Previous petitions (not confined to ACC matters) have been rendered dead-in-the-water by effective, and now familiar, processes and standard operating procedures at the House Of Representatives.

Petitions must be shepherded through the House's chambers of horror. One of a petition's best allies is public scrutiny of the process.

In order that the Public Eye stays focussed on the progress of the petition, Media industry editors must be fed copy that competes on news show ratings. This is a challenge akin to that undertaken for the America's Cup TV coverage. We have to make the work of citizenship interesting to the public at large in order to produce a result in accordance of the will of the petitioners. The progress of a petition through the House can be made interesting but will evolve at it's own pace.

Some things that interest the public at large can be pretty base, others just basic. A few jolly rollicking expensive high-profile court cases can draw attention if enough money is involved. These are as hard to coordinate as a herd of cats so will take it's own time.

Knowing the names of the people in government who will be handling the petition enables polite pre-acknowledgement (horse-trading) among stakeholders. The field must be set before the pitch is made or the petition will be caught out again.
This has to happen as all the petitions hit the front door of the house at the same time. This is as easy as nailing jelly to a tree and will not be hurried.

It's all on Percy.

Peace
Hillsy
0

#12 User is offline   magnacarta 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 484
  • Joined: 22-October 04

Posted 25 February 2006 - 08:00 PM

Percy, tonight I am tired and bitchy having been working on the provisions of s.133 (3) and s.65 (1) and researching all day to help a claimant.

Tomorrow (Sunday) is another day and I will try and answer your questions sometime in the day and put up a draft petition.

The wording of the earlier petition and other suggestions for wording are already on the Board, so frankly I think I will again be wasting my time and that is bloody frustrating.

Have you guys talked to your MP's or even bothered to try?????????

Some have and some are doing their own petitions like all our Northland guys.

I mean how many people even earlier wrote letters to their MP's -12, or was it 13.

And how many members are registered on the forum???? Get my drift.
0

#13 User is offline   doppelganger 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1740
  • Joined: 19-September 03

Posted 25 February 2006 - 08:57 PM

my question is this way going to work?

it seams that the investigation may be out of out hands and will be in the hands of someone that doesn't want the truth.

I will sign a new petition but like others are looking at other ways.

I am looking at ways to boost the govetment coffers, (which the goverment wants) but at the same time get the case manager to use the legislation.

Parliment doesn't want to make sure that the ACC is being proper bu I'm sure that the COE may start wake up when she gets question about pratices.

sorry not putting it on due to what the ACC will do to stop any action because of there own behaviour.

I are on chat most nights but yes it does require an effort.
0

#14 Guest_Percy_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 25 February 2006 - 10:25 PM

Yes Magnacarta, I posted the Forum letter to my MP our Ruthie and have had a gorgeous dialogue with her ever since. Her last letter was a gem and gave some info we all can use at some time.

Imagine the fun going to see her and give her my petition. She refuses to talk ACC to constituents!!!

Down the road is dopey Carter, what a lovely mixture.

Hope you have a good sleep Magna. Suggest an infrared Sauna to relax the jagged nerves.

And hey, there just may be more girls and less boys than you think!!!!

Cheers, Percy
0

#15 User is offline   jocko 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 988
  • Joined: 15-September 03

Posted 25 February 2006 - 10:27 PM

Without being offensive may I say that ; For my money the Greens are a polite bunch of political hand wringers. Before we start harrassing members to file petitions it should be remembered that this is a support group. We are supposed to be helping each other, not making demands that some may find difficult either through fear of reprisal from ACC or simply because they do not want to get that involved, or do not know how. Personally I think following political procedure is a waste of time, as the last petition proved. To the majority of the general public ACC is despicable, everyone hates them. But if you think anything is going to make the Government change things, guess again. ACC is the major investment arm of the Government and for them to go back and say that claimants are right and the way ACC has been behaving is wrong would open up a very large can of worms indeed. Continuing to share legal info on cases and collectively sharing on how cases are individually won is far more important than writing words on bits of paper to politicians who simply don't care. Without ACC and its bullshit financial dealings, this country and the bunch of crooks that run it, would, in the eyes of the world, be broke. Pay back the money stolen from long term claimants and then where is Cullens "Surplus"?? As I have said before this site is the enquiry, all the evidence neccessary to convict Wilson, Cullen and Clarke of grand fraud is in here and undeniable. The corruption that is ACC has deeply affected the whole country with even the judicial system deeply involved. So who is going to take note of a "petition"? Michael Cullen? Helen Clarke? Lianne Dalziel? Ruth Dyson?Don Brash? Stay united and keep doing what you do best, helping each other.
0

#16 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 98
  • Joined: 14-February 06

Posted 25 February 2006 - 10:28 PM

Thinking here, thinking and thinking.

Thankyou Hatvika for the booklet on petitioning.....

[QUOTE]A petition is a document addressed exclusively to
the House of Representatives, signed by one
person or many people, that requests the House to
take a clearly defined action on a matter of public
policy or law, or to redress a local or private
grievance.[QUOTE]

I am starting to think, if this is the way it has to be, then the way to get through may be for a slow but sure dribble of petitions.....one every week say, until they give up and pick one up, or give up and put one through.

Not sure what they (petitions)all hit the door at the same time means....


I've got district court submissions to get done, and some reviews - all my own....so I can't afford to get sidetracked again at the moment guys....

keep on keeping on. Gloria
0

#17 User is offline   yesno 

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 0
  • Joined: 24-February 06

Posted 26 February 2006 - 12:24 AM

Sorry all,

not used to this fourm yet, posted in the wrong place. I will post it again here.

Whatever happens, it needs to be very well coordinated,

to give it the best chance of sucess, you need a political champion, someone who is either well respected in new zealand (judge Traspski (sorry about spelling)) or Sir Woodhouse, or even Sean Fitzpatrick. We need fundamental media support and involvement over the long term, Fair Go, a Documentary team, Parlimentary support, and we need to get all new zealanders involved, People need to uderstand that this happens to them. Although there must be great detail, we must also be a simple message that we can get accross to the general public in 30 seconds.

I am not sure what I can do to help. I am awaiting the response from ACC. In my report I included many recommendations to remedy breaches and address the situation.

In glorias case, i am working on come of the issues that Arise from Dr WHites letter.

This process will work best if an office can be set up, (even if it is an e office to coordinate all of this stuff. Everything needs to be in the same format so that it is easy to understand and it needs to be handed in person in wellington following a well planned protest to parliment, from memory there are some nice lawns in from of the behive, and if it rains, we could all go and stay at the Museum.

cheers
0

#18 User is offline   Hatikva 

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 12-June 05
  • LocationWop Wops

Posted 26 February 2006 - 09:14 AM

Quote

This process will work best if an office can be set up, (even if it is an e office to coordinate all of this stuff. Everything needs to be in the same format so that it is easy to understand and it needs to be handed in person in wellington following a well planned protest to parliment, from memory there are some nice lawns in from of the behive, and if it rains, we could all go and stay at the Museum.


This has been noted before (BTW - welcome to the forum, YesNo!) - there is need for coordination of efforts, arranging the line up of the targets (politicians) - really a "lobby group" on behalf of claimants ...

The lobby group would work in close relationship with local ACC support groups - and could also coordinate demonstrations etc on parliament grounds - we're still a bit too loosely organised ... to be as effective as we could be in placing pressure on politians (and the civil servants - or as we called them in Canada Supple Serpents ... they wiggle too much!) - need to get attention to those in the offices of the MP's - they can grease the works in getting through to the actual MPs.

Personally, if there are enough Maori on the forum to assist, Tariana Turia is VERY approachable - so we could ask her for support for Maori victims of ACC, and at the same time go through other sympathic parties. The challenge is that Maori have been disappropriately affected by ACC decisions but are in many cases unwilling to challenge the system that put them there - for fear of losing what little they get. The fact that many Maori have left school early to work in trades/forestry leaves many with insufficent education in the subtleties of English to be able to challenge the paperwork that ACC throws at them. Hell - I've got university and I find it a challenge -

Have we got a Maori forum member in Wellington who would be willing to meet with Tariana?

Magnacarta has a great start on a new petition - the challenge is getting it to MP's, and then convincing them to put it to parliament I'm willing to have a go at Flavell (and possibly Ms Chadwick) to ensure that it is presented - Doubt if Labour would be willing to present the petition, however we did have support from the Green Party before - perhaps again?
0

#19 User is offline   Tomcat 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2158
  • Joined: 14-September 03

Posted 08 March 2006 - 06:46 PM

Greetings,
THE PETITION...

We have all made a big noise about and how the first one has been dealt with...

Is this going to die out as well ????:angry:

The right time for another to be put together and presented to parliament IS NOW.

Trust ME ..I am not wrong. : ;)
0

#20 User is offline   Limoges 

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 0
  • Joined: 25-November 04

Posted 09 March 2006 - 05:01 PM

Everyone on the Forum,

Listen to Tomcat! The right time to do something is NOW! I have recently written a letter to Ruth Dyson regarding the 'SPIN' on matters which she has been receiving for many years from the staff at ACC and have been able to prove to her for once and for all that it is just that - absolute SPIN. Judge Trapski was well aware of the situation which is why he too stated that an Inquiry into ACC was overdue. Ms Dyson became completely (and unknowingly I believe) involved in this dastardly behaviour as well when writing back to claimants. It seems things with me are on the move for the better due to the truth finally being proven to her. I would think it is thanks to her, and perhaps Dr White also. I hope that this isn't just a false start!

Do not sit back, or worse still, whinge about things on the Forum. If one does not take the time and effort to involve Dr White and Hon. Ruth Dyson NOW regarding your perceived injustices, you will not get the changes which must be made with the way the CM's deal with long-term claimants' claims. A huge statement I hear you all saying........ Well, things for me appear to be changing for the better. In fact, they just have........for one thing my new updated and correct entitlement was put into my account yesterday!
0

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users