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Vocational Rehabilitation Research

#41 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 01:23 PM

Will not be bullied into not making relevant posts within any thread I deem appropriate. Please reread my thread number 33.

I have been very significantly involved with vocational rehabilitation research and have well developed viewpoints resulting from not only the last 20 years of research but also the two decades prior to that as an employer who needed to deal with a very large scope of work task skills within a large variety of occupations.
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#42 User is offline   Medwyn 

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 02:32 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Jul 15 2008, 01:23 PM, said:

Will not be bullied into not making relevant posts within any thread I deem appropriate. Please reread my thread number 33.

I have been very significantly involved with vocational rehabilitation research and have well developed viewpoints resulting from not only the last 20 years of research but also the two decades prior to that as an employer who needed to deal with a very large scope of work task skills within a large variety of occupations.

So where the puck's the White Papers, the research documents?

I would have thought that agencies like WINZ and ACC plus Dept of ;abour would be very interested in your studies.

Why no offers of a research chair at Massey as Albany campus is just up the road?

You could have coffee and cakes with hazel Armstrong , no second thoughts, she may be to progressive (Lefty, Socialist) and too right for you.

Is it because on this issue your stools don't bind and it would ricochet al over you?
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#43 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 03:14 PM

Medwyn when determining what skill requirements are required to complete a project I worked from what I'm hoping the end result to be backward towards the individual work task requirements that need to be carried out. I then look at what education, experience and skill is needed to achieve those tasks. I then create clusters of tasks so as to determine what type of occupations are relevant to the project. In order to determine how many of each occupation I then had to quantify those tasks into hours and so the process goes on.

That background of mine is not theoretical but in the real world whereby if I do not do it right the wrong things happen after the green button is pressed and more importantly I do not get paid. As I owned my own company for most of my life I must have been reasonably successful in the above processes.

Although Hazel Armstrong addressed significant issues regarding the paperwork processes she completely failed to address the reality of competent task achievement within the occupation so as to demonstrate actual rehabilitation in any meaningful way. The ACC has been very careful to sidestep meaningful rehabilitation as that would require that they are employed meaningful expertise and maintain core competencies to bring about rehabilitation. It seems they are more interested in spin rather than reality placing these people firmly in the pie cutter category rather than the pie major category.
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#44 User is offline   Medwyn 

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 05:09 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Jul 15 2008, 03:14 PM, said:

Medwyn when determining what skill requirements are required to complete a project I worked from what I'm hoping the end result to be backward towards the individual work task requirements that need to be carried out. I then look at what education, experience and skill is needed to achieve those tasks. I then create clusters of tasks so as to determine what type of occupations are relevant to the project. In order to determine how many of each occupation I then had to quantify those tasks into hours and so the process goes on.

That background of mine is not theoretical but in the real world whereby if I do not do it right the wrong things happen after the green button is pressed and more importantly I do not get paid. As I owned my own company for most of my life I must have been reasonably successful in the above processes.

Although Hazel Armstrong addressed significant issues regarding the paperwork processes she completely failed to address the reality of competent task achievement within the occupation so as to demonstrate actual rehabilitation in any meaningful way. The ACC has been very careful to sidestep meaningful rehabilitation as that would require that they are employed meaningful expertise and maintain core competencies to bring about rehabilitation. It seems they are more interested in spin rather than reality placing these people firmly in the pie cutter category rather than the pie major category.

Again I ask, just when are we going to see the fruits of 20yrs research published or disseminated for public consumption, or is it just another figment of your imagination?

In other words as politely as i can, to help this thread and to back up your pontifications, Put up or shut up!
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#45 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 05:20 PM

Medwyn I guess it has escaped your notice that the ACC accused me of successfully rehabilitating into a new occupation than prosecuting me for fraud. To the ACC mind this meant that I had successfully self rehabilitated without their assistance.

During last year and again earlier this year the ACC change the story because there was no evidence of this imaginary rehabilitation which confirmed that I was right in as much as I have not succeeded in rehabilitating into a new occupation.

The ACC are now trying to demonstrate to the court that I am no longer incapacitated to return to my preinjury occupation by trying to find out what my preinjury occupation was and what my injuries were. Again I expect to be able to demonstrate the nature of incapacity and rehabilitation by reminding them of the preinjury occupational facts and the medical facts on my file again demonstrating my comprehension of the rehabilitation process.

It is my opinion that identifying incapacity from injury is a medical matter which must be applied to the individual work task activities of the occupation so as to determine whether or not it was safe to proceed with those tasks. This was against the ACC strategy of avoidance and misleading by way of personal attack. It is sad that much of New Zealand's population has followed the ACC approach to the comprehension of the rehabilitation process by relying upon instinct or commonsense over and above criteria. I anticipate that the criteria approach to determining rehabilitation will win out in the end.
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#46 User is offline   Medwyn 

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 06:19 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Jul 15 2008, 05:20 PM, said:

Medwyn I guess it has escaped your notice that the ACC accused me of successfully rehabilitating into a new occupation than prosecuting me for fraud. To the ACC mind this meant that I had successfully self rehabilitated without their assistance.

During last year and again earlier this year the ACC change the story because there was no evidence of this imaginary rehabilitation which confirmed that I was right in as much as I have not succeeded in rehabilitating into a new occupation.

The ACC are now trying to demonstrate to the court that I am no longer incapacitated to return to my preinjury occupation by trying to find out what my preinjury occupation was and what my injuries were. Again I expect to be able to demonstrate the nature of incapacity and rehabilitation by reminding them of the preinjury occupational facts and the medical facts on my file again demonstrating my comprehension of the rehabilitation process.

It is my opinion that identifying incapacity from injury is a medical matter which must be applied to the individual work task activities of the occupation so as to determine whether or not it was safe to proceed with those tasks. This was against the ACC strategy of avoidance and misleading by way of personal attack. It is sad that much of New Zealand's population has followed the ACC approach to the comprehension of the rehabilitation process by relying upon instinct or commonsense over and above criteria. I anticipate that the criteria approach to determining rehabilitation will win out in the end.

I"m not worrying about your rehabilitation, that's for you to sort out in your own way, just anser the question put above " Again I ask, just when are we going to see the fruits of 20yrs research published or disseminated for public consumption, or is it just another figment of your imagination?

In other words as politely as i can, to help this thread and to back up your pontifications, Put up or shut up!


Are yuo afraid of ridicule or what? you are the one that goes on about sharing resources, well where are they? this thread could do with some meaty research to chew over and not rehashing your effin' case in every post.

Now's the time to step up and prove how benevolent and wise you are after all.
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#47 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 06:35 PM

Medwyn I have been researching this problem of categorising work task capacity to various occupations since 1990 based on the New Zealand stats found in the New Zealand standard classification of occupations which was built into a rudimentary database. A joint-venture was started October 1990 it ran until March 1991 with ACC accusing me of working and cancelling my claim October 1991.

In 1992 the ACC without the wrong. I had surgery and waited for my capacity to return to my preinjury occupation only it was not for surgery that was agreed to and as such I could not return to my preinjury occupation.

In 1996 the ACC gave me an ultimatum to utilise my residual capacity or face suspension. I funded the restart of the original project and provided the ACC with a business plan that included further development of the software and for me to master the art of voice software so as to include me in on that plan. The codification of work task followed on in the concept of a multidimensional database as an extension of the New Zealand standard classification of occupations numbering system which by the way is based on the international standards.

The ACC were not happy with this arrangement, that Italy my knowledge and approach to the rehabilitation issues and cancelled my claim alleging that I was working when in fact I was preparing the plan.
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#48 User is offline   Medwyn 

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 09:03 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Jul 15 2008, 06:35 PM, said:

Medwyn I have been researching this problem of categorising work task capacity to various occupations since 1990 based on the New Zealand stats found in the New Zealand standard classification of occupations which was built into a rudimentary database. A joint-venture was started October 1990 it ran until March 1991 with ACC accusing me of working and cancelling my claim October 1991.

In 1992 the ACC without the wrong. I had surgery and waited for my capacity to return to my preinjury occupation only it was not for surgery that was agreed to and as such I could not return to my preinjury occupation.

In 1996 the ACC gave me an ultimatum to utilise my residual capacity or face suspension. I funded the restart of the original project and provided the ACC with a business plan that included further development of the software and for me to master the art of voice software so as to include me in on that plan. The codification of work task followed on in the concept of a multidimensional database as an extension of the New Zealand standard classification of occupations numbering system which by the way is based on the international standards.

The ACC were not happy with this arrangement, that Italy my knowledge and approach to the rehabilitation issues and cancelled my claim alleging that I was working when in fact I was preparing the plan.

Jeez Alan,

I don't need reminding about your bloody surgery, there's page of it here already, who doesn't know about your surgery?

What I and probably a lot of others want to know is the results of all that expended "residual capacity" on research as there may be some good in it.

You are first in line for taking, but not too good on sharing unless it's about your case, your reviews, your political name-drops or your surgery.

On this most important thread, now is the time to give back for all you have taken. Put it up for us all to see.
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#49 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 01:44 AM

Medwyn I think an apology would be in order as I have given far more to the site than I have received. Where were you 10 years ago?

I have already provided various flowcharts to get you started but I think you might have forgotten. I've always promoted the concept of a properly produced occupational and medical assessment is that is driven by criteria while all else around me were simply looking for someone who would be kind to them.

Ground your case in reality and the rest should follow with ease. There are strong foundation to your case ACC will find it quite impossible to Colin you out of your entitlements but it may result in an attacking you but you should continue to stand tall relying upon the facts
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#50 User is offline   Bill Birch 

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 02:35 PM

The flow charts are a load of bollocks, but not a waste of your time.
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#51 User is offline   Medwyn 

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 03:05 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Jul 16 2008, 01:44 AM, said:

Medwyn I think an apology would be in order as I have given far more to the site than I have received. Where were you 10 years ago?

I have already provided various flowcharts to get you started but I think you might have forgotten. I've always promoted the concept of a properly produced occupational and medical assessment is that is driven by criteria while all else around me were simply looking for someone who would be kind to them.

Ground your case in reality and the rest should follow with ease. There are strong foundation to your case ACC will find it quite impossible to Colin you out of your entitlements but it may result in an attacking you but you should continue to stand tall relying upon the facts

On the old MSN site old son, reading your missives and anthologies and trying to make sense of your flowcharts. If that's the best you can come up with, the ANZSCO is as safe as houses and CPANZ will survive.
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#52 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 03:59 PM

David and Medwyn what part of the flowcharts did you not understand or particularly disagree with? I would be very keen to know if I had made an actual mistake.

Medwyn the ANZSCO was produced by people with a high level of expertise with the result that they have expertly achieved their objectives. It is a high-quality document. The problem that I have expressed is that the ACC and the assessors are viewing this material as an endpoint rather than a beginning point in describing occupations. The ANZSCO is not intended to be a complete description of occupations for purposes of determining rehabilitation.

Generally speaking occupational assessors do not have qualification, experience or skill to describe the particular occupations that being relied upon to describe. I think we should object to panning for gold in their stream.
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#53 User is offline   Medwyn 

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 05:10 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Jul 16 2008, 03:59 PM, said:

[

Generally speaking occupational assessors do not have qualification, experience or skill to describe the particular occupations that being relied upon to describe.

What do you mean? ALL assessors must be members of CPANZ at least and are required to come up to a very strict standard that you would not believe. Further training and upskilling is mandatory and peer reviews are held.

CPANZ membership is not easy to acquire nor to sit on your bum and retain, you have to work at it.

So before you open your dribblesput, get your facts right instead of your usual denigrating of anyone who knows something that you want to know, or better still, no's better than you.

With regard to the Flowchart, Roger McGuinn and the Byrds sang, in Easyrider I paraphrase"

The dribble flows
It flows to the sea
Wherever that dribble goes
That's where I want to be
Flow dribble flow
Let your waters wash down
Take me from this road
To some other town
( overseas, any bloody where!)
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#54 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 08:27 PM

The CPANZdoes not provide any form of education or qualification. At the highest level they ensure that the forms are filled out and the members of a in a dignified manner so as not to cause embarrassment to the CPANZ. In real terms the members of CPANZ are not provided with any additional or meaningful comprehension of work task activities. One of the members who have used for my 1997 appeal teachers ACC assesses in the teaching institutions and has kindly provided me with this information as part of my submissions to the court.
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#55 User is offline   Medwyn 

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 09:01 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Jul 16 2008, 08:27 PM, said:

The CPANZdoes not provide any form of education or qualification. At the highest level they ensure that the forms are filled out and the members of a in a dignified manner so as not to cause embarrassment to the CPANZ. In real terms the members of CPANZ are not provided with any additional or meaningful comprehension of work task activities. One of the members who have used for my 1997 appeal teachers ACC assesses in the teaching institutions and has kindly provided me with this information as part of my submissions to the court.


Alan,
Don't bullshit,

CPANZ was not in existence in 1997. get your facts right. They don't teach ACC assessing in any tertiary institution, in your dreams.

CPANZ determine whether your qualifications, vocational experience, proactive training etc.is relevant and to their required standard.

And whether you like it or not, they are the mandated authority to determine whether a person meets the criteria set by ACC as to a person's competency to assess.

Since when was your name on the CPANZ register?

With all the things and people you quote, you must have Multiple Personality Disorder? Having trouble with who you are today?
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