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Acc Fraud Squad

#1 User is offline   watcha 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 12:10 PM

This topic is very closely related to the following PI thread but deserves a thread of its own.

It's not very often I lose control but I was very close to it today. I am still shaking with anger 2 hours after attending a fraud squad "voluntary" claimant meeting this morning as a supporter.

The claimant was "invited" to attend the meeting as there were "issues that called into question his on-going eligibility for cover and weekly compensation."

Present were a fraud squad female and one other with a Visitor ID card around his neck.

We had barely sat down after introducing ourselves when I asked the person who introduced himself as an investigator what his function was at the meeting and would he please show me his identification and credentials. He told me in no uncertain that his function was none of my business and he flatly refused to show me his credentials.

Off to a great start, but wait, there's more. Next, the claimant pulled out his tape recorder and said he would tape the meeting. Well, everything turned to custard right away, heated exchanges about rights to tape v not being taped. Private dick (emphasing the word Dick) became very agitated as did fraud squad lady who then called the meeting off and fired a parting salvo about filling out statutory declarations seeing that he refused to answer questions.

Refused to answer questions??? Claimant didn't get the chance. ACC refused to state the purpose of the meeting, failed to warn the claimant of his rights, refused to state the nature of the allegations, refused to give the claimant any information at all!!!

The attitude of these turkeys was absolutely appalling, bullying, intransigence beggared belief. These people are totally out of control; a complaint will be lodged before the end of business today.

Still seething - you must never allow yourselves to be intimidated!
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#2 User is offline   Easyrider 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 12:18 PM

And please cc the complaint to your MP in your area and also all other people standing for election.
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#3 User is offline   Paradigm Shift 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 12:50 PM

What is critically important at this point is that you request a set of questions of the information that they were seeking from the Corporation. Do not go to any meeting like this without the questions prepared in advance. Bring along information to support your answers. Do not go to a meeting of this type without a lawyer.

What's the private investigator will try to do is reconfigure facts into something representing a hypothesis that you are no longer entitled. The Corporation uses this technique as an exit strategy in an attempt to avoid vocational independent assessments or to directly challenge your medical provider or even specialists alleging that you can do things without regard as to whether or not you should do things. In worst-case situation is they provide evidence that you have been doing things and then try to say that you have lied to the medical providers including specialists.

Make no mistake when a private investigator is involved that they are seeking to support a fraud prosecution. Frequently the Corporation will issue an ultimatum requiring you to surrender your entitlements or face prosecution. Many invalids do not wish to risk going up against a multibillion-dollar Corporation in the courts.
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#4 User is offline   magnacarta 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 01:24 PM

watcha, a very interesting post.

Please immediately consign your record of the meeting to writing.

The reliance on "notes taken at the time" are perfenctly acceptable in a court and you may needs these for the future.

Reliance on memory at some later stage is inadequate for evidential purposes.

The name of the person who identified himself at the meeting as an investigator will be easy to check by way of the Registrar of the Court issuing licenses under the Private Investigator's and Security Guards Act.

Your actions were completely lawful to demand to see his license.

If he is not a licensed operator then why is ACC using him??????

I just wonder who is being made out to be the alleged offender.

Most, if not all, claimants could easily make a counter allegation against ACC.

This is why there is an urgent need for a follow-up with the already existing complaints to police against ACC - and if necessary, a complaint to the Police Compliants Authority alleging negligent conduct of duty if the police have done nothing about those existing complaints.

Haven't they been outstanding with police since about December 2004?????
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#5 User is offline   hillsy 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 02:02 PM

Good afternoon all,
forgive me if this question should be posted on another thread.
Are we entitled to ask if we are under investigation? under the privacy act maybe?

Watcha: thanks for the prompt reporting of this incident. I'm sure all readers are as shaken and angry as you. I hope the claimant who suffered this travesty can draw some comfort from these posts, I urge him or her to not dispair and to not allow that dark hour colour the rest of the day. Don't let 'em rob you of the beautiful days that are your right to enjoy.

peace
Hillsy
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#6 User is offline   Paradigm Shift 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 02:48 PM

When there is a criminal investigation in progress there are extra ordinary powers override the normally excepted provisions in the privacy act. The ACC use this provision to access information that they would otherwise not be entitled to have. The ACC have a small number of questions that they ask themselves so as to justify the instigation of a private investigation.

This year it is expected that more will be exited the scheme by way of fraud allegation than by vocational independence.
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#7 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 06:12 PM

Prvate investigators are just the scumm and should be treated as so. there job is to deceive the public. and that is what they do best.

this use of PI has been going on for a long time and the corporation use te PI to cover up what they have been doing. If the claimant wants to it be the best time to review the file (all the files) with a fine tooth comb.

Complain to every sector of the ACC even to the ACC fraud unit. (see that ACC are looking for a new person in the fraud unit in Christchurch) get them so tied up in there own paper work that the PI will be running around in circles and with luck the ACC staff will get the idea that dishonesty is not tolorated by claimants.

Been there my sef. PI and case manager lied and PI didn't even show his identification. I didn't know any better.
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#8 User is offline   greg 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 07:26 PM

I too have been involved in a lie created by ACC. but when
the truth came out , they had lied and forgot that they wrote
the project, which ACC. & I signed in good faith, only to be
set up as fraud. Lawyer got $30.000 and claimed a
future ERC until 65 yr's.
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#9 User is offline   Witchiepoo 

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  Posted 24 August 2005 - 08:49 AM

just been through this whole process - over a year they had PI's following me, my mother and my flatmate. Their interigation interview was horrible ! Their file notes were lies and assumptions. They eventually closed the case and never informed me that I had been cleared of their fraud accusations. The PI was attempting to get ACC to put the case with lawyers and attempt to prosecute me even though they had no evidence. It really takes its toll on you and hey they don't give a dam that you are injured and they get off on making you sicker.

Be warned people, they follow you to the supermarket, they watch you all the time, they interview people you have had contact with, they write lies in their notes to justify their bills to ACC, they probably sniff your wife's underwear. They even strike up conversations with you in an attempt to obtain information. I had one guy try 'to pick me up' at my property while I was gardening and next thing he was knocking on my door down a long driveway expecting to get a coffee and a chat inside the house and a snoop. They are deviant twit !!!

Consequently, I don't trust anybody anymore and look sideways at anyone who talks to you - it's not a nice feeling.

And complaints get you no where - I am still waiting for answers !

Bollocks !!!!
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#10 Guest_Percy_*

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 09:52 AM

PROVIDER INVESTIGATOR

Key result Areas:Succesfully investigates amd prosecutes provider fraud

Interprets and examines data to detect fraud

Demonstates soundunderstanding of all relevant legislation

Ability to plan and conduct comples fraud investigations

High quality prosecution files and trial management

Key Attributes : History of excellence in criminal investigation

Experience investigationg complex fraud matters

Tenacity and initiative

Demonstrated abilty to interpret and apply legislation

High standards in computer literacy and written communication.

Apply within ACC

As advertised in my local Morning paper :lol:

You will note that there is no requirement for HONESTY AND FAIRNESS OR INTERGRITY, or any experience within the Privacy Act Legislation.

WHY DONT WE ALL APPLY? WE COULD SHOW EM HOW TO DO IT PERHAPS??
IF THIS IS THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR PROVIDER FRAUD, WHAT DOES CLAIMANT FRAUD ENTAIL?
Ability to get inside peoples homes, heads and hearts as well???
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#11 User is offline   Limoges 

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 10:06 AM

I can understand your seething fury with this situation Watcha. What filthy tactics is ACC now using to exit claimants? Usually they would contact the claimant and exit them accordingly saying that they have PI evidence etc.......... as in my case. That is evidence which had been heavily edited and a very pertinent point to the case missed completely from the footage and the Report.

Of course the Investigator was only there to lie and cheat (no doubt!) his way through the interview. You did right to bring the tape recorder out. That obviously made him 'running scared'!

The claimant should take ACC to Review. I think the people in DRSL are now cottoning on to the dirty currupt ways of ACC which is why we are now finding more Decisions being quashed by the Reviewer and being found in favour of the claimant.

The Ombudsman should be informed of this situation. I think he too is now well aware of the dirty tactics which ACC is pursuing with claimants.
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#12 Guest_Percy_*

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 02:29 PM

:o Just a further titbit of info I omitted about 'fraud PI's.

The heading in the Advert says
"ACC's risk and Assurance role in ACC is to support management IN ACHIEVING THE ORGANISATION'S OBJECTIVES. We provide support to all levels of management in the achievement OF THEIR BUSINESS OBJECTIVES".

So here is a new slant in this serious "fraud" issue. It is to assist them in their business objectives.
And if that business objective is to keep claimant costs down, way go boys, out there with the clip board and binoculars.
No mention of honesty or integrity,- they want some failed supercop to catch out innocent people going about their somewhat painful daily business!
Do you agree??
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#13 User is offline   Witchiepoo 

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  Posted 24 August 2005 - 04:38 PM

THE GRAND FINALE ......

District Court - Decision as to Costs

1. In my decision delivered 11th July 2005, I reserved leave for an application for costs to be made on Mr Cheetham's behalf. That application was received on 18th July 2005, within the seven day period permitted.

2. The application for costs lodged on behalf of Mr Cheetham exhibited a letter from his solicitors to Ms XXXXX prior to the hearing, inviting her to withdraw her complaint and advising that if she failed to do so, that letter would be put before me in support of an application for solicitor/client costs. This letter is known as the Calderbank letter. This reference arises from an English decision of Calderbank v Calderbank (1975) 3 All ER 333. I never received this letter so had no knowledge of it.

3. I find it strange that a private investigator engaged by the Accident Compensation Corporation to investigate whether a recipient of compensation payments was otherwise working, would be unaware that compensation payments are subject to payment of PAYE tax. Presumably, the ACC personnel who engagedd Mr Cheetham would have been aware of this, but did not advise him when otherwise briefing him to undertake the investigation.

4. If it had not been for this incorrect assumption on Mr Cheetham's part, the statement by him of which Ms. XXXXXX complained would not have been made, and it is highly unlikely that any complaint would have followed.

5. To a large degree therefore, the Corporation and Mr Cheetham laid the foundation for the complaint in the manner I have outlined.

6. That being so, it does not seem to me to be appropriate to make an award of costs against Ms. XXXXXXX in this case. People have a statutory right of complaint and should not be dissuaded from doing so by fear of an adverse award of costs. I have concluded that no award of costs should be made in this case. The application made on behalf of Mr Cheetham for an award of costs is declined.

THERE IS A FINE LINE BETWEEN PLEASURE AND PAIN .... guess you suck this one ACC and PI Man and rightly so !!!!!
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#14 User is offline   Easyrider 

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 04:42 PM

DRSL are not there to help you, their job is to save ACC money as well, and they will only rule in your favour when their back is to the wall, and can see the District Court Judge will deal to them. If they think the claimaint will not go to the D C on appeal they will rule in ACCs favour.
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#15 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 11:09 PM

this is ACC own words for that fraud prodiver

Attached File(s)


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#16 Guest_Percy_*

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 12:54 AM

Amazing isnt it. Not a word about HONESTY AND INTEGRITY!!

But there was this disturbing statement, "Build relations with witnesses"
??By BRIBERY, FEAR, FRAUD, or a FREE LUNCH? - Heard of that one!!!!!

Also,"Early guilty pleas, as a guilty plea saves COSTS!!! " Costs to whom???
This Fraud Dept is a growing industry. The ACC claimant, honest and injured, soon will not stand a chance, & as this dept builds its powers and numbers, we all will soon have em following us or evesdropping. Quite scary. People try to live a sort of life as near as poss to normal and these guys will be building relationships with your neighbour etc to spy on you. Is this New Zealand????
Is this Care, prevention , recovery????

Thanks Dopel for an interesting read!!
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#17 User is offline   happy1 

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 03:31 PM

More ACC bull s***t.How many other claimants have been set up for fraud

charges, so greedy case mongrels can get the big fat bonus and a pat on the

head from repulsive W Wilson.??

SEE STORY NZ HERALD-MILLIONAIRE WALKS FREE AFTER A.C.C FRAUD

RETRIAL DROPPED.

C`mon A.C.C admit this is standard practice -get a work partner with a drudge

to nark on claimants with all sorts of lies

and milk it like you do all the stock !!!
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#18 User is offline   magnacarta 

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 04:08 PM

The above is an outrageous abuse of power and bad faith on the part of ACC and its employees Norman Reid and Jocelyn Leek.

From the outset ACC could not help but have known they were wrong. They are an experienced insurer of many years experience.

This is an intentional infliction of harm and I hope Mr Donaldson sues them, the Crown prosecutor and others for $millions.
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#19 User is offline   happy1 

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 04:43 PM

I do to, but how many has this happened to, and cant afford to sue?

I note ACC twisted the evidence so that the jury was to believe claimants were

NOT entitled to capital payments


Yeah sure the case has been abandoned ,and rightfully so, but at what personal

cost to Mr Donaldson.I`m sure no amount of money will EVER compensate for

the stress ,Mr Donaldson suffered and then what about the jail time he served.?

Just proves our concerns for a COMPLETE ,INDEPENDANT enquiry are well

founded and long overdue.
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#20 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 06:44 PM

Quote

Mr Donaldson said he had wasted eight precious months of his life


you can't bring back that time but only putting the persons involved into the same situtation will change them.

Confine them to a life with no social contact and see how long they survive.
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