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New Zealand Standard Classfication Of Occupations Available for Download: 1.14Mb (PDF)

#21 User is offline   Medwyn 

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 05:19 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Jul 12 2008, 01:55 PM, said:

Medwyn it is not the defacto document but the document authority from which all occupational assessors must rely. When this document disagrees with the job sheet the ACC for the occupational assessors the occupational assessor must rely upon the Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations and put aside the ACC paperwork. Remember that the occupational assessment must be independent from the ACC and rely upon authoritative information.

The ANZSCO information is based on the international standards and for New Zealand and Australia the refining or localising information is extracted initially from the census. From there the census taker contributing towards this document has heavy involvement with all of the different occupational groups, employment organisations, unions and New Zealand Qualification Authority etc.

The ANZSCO is simply the starting point to describe an occupation and not the end point as the ACC assesses have frequently led the judiciary to believe, which is frequently the foundation to fraudulent document is being produced in New Zealand for the pecuniary advantage of the ACC.To properly determine any particular occupation the ANZSCO information must be built upon by describing each and every physical and mental task activity of the occupation so as the medical assessor has sufficient information to form an opinion. What is currently happening is the occupational assessor is finding a job title and leaving it to the medical assessor to understand what that job means. This makes the medical assessor and occupational assessor which of course is wrong.

ANZSCO is a skill-based classification used to classify all occupations and jobs in the Australian and New Zealand labour markets.
To do this, ANZSCO identifies a set of occupations covering all jobs in the Australian and New Zealand labour markets, defines these occupations according to their attributes and groups them on the basis of their similarity into successively broader categories for statistical and other types of analysis. The individual objects classified in ANZSCO are
jobs.

In ANZSCO, occupations are organised into progressively larger groups on the basis of their similarities in terms of both skill level and skill specialisation. The conceptual model adopted for ANZSCO uses a combination of skill level and skill specialisation as criteria to design major groups which are meaningful and useful for most purposes. The eight major groups are formed by grouping together sub-major groups using aspects of both skill level and skill specialisation. In designing the major groups, intuitive appeal and usefulness in both statistical and administrative applications were also important considerations.

The skill level criterion is applied as rigorously as possible at the second level of the classification, the sub-major group level, together with a finer application of skill specialisation than that applied at the major group level. Each sub-major group is made up of a number of minor groups.

Minor groups are distinguished from each other mainly on the basis of a finer application of skill specialisation than that applied at the sub-major group level. Within minor groups, unit groups are distinguished from each other on the basis of skill specialisation and, where necessary, skill level.

The structure of ANZSCO has five hierarchical levels - major group, sub-major group, minor group, unit group and occupation. The categories at the most detailed level of the classification are termed 'occupations'. These are grouped together to form 'unit groups',
which in turn are grouped into 'minor groups'. Minor groups are aggregated to form 'sub-major groups' which in turn are aggregated at the highest level to form 'major groups'. These are the same hierarchical levels that are used in ASCO Second Edition and NZSCO
1999.

The scope of ANZSCO is all occupations and jobs in the Australian and New Zealand labour markets undertaken for pay or profit, including jobs occupied by people working for themselves. ANZSCO is not designed to cover work not undertaken for pay or profit, for example
voluntary work. However, this does not preclude ANZSCO from describing such activities.



Jeez Alan,

662 words to say "Medwyn it is not the defacto document but the document authority from which all occupational assessors must rely. When this document disagrees with the job sheet the ACC for the occupational assessors the occupational assessor must rely upon the Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations and put aside the ACC paperwork. Remember that the occupational assessment must be independent from the ACC and rely upon authoritative information."

Just for fun, I passed through the Flesch-Kincaid readability score, Oh woe is me, a score of 17, woefully inadequate, totals out as legalese and legal speak, not what the average person would understand!

As for de facto, can I quote you "but the document authority from which all occupational assessors must rely."

As you are definitely not a member of CPANZ nor accredited to conduct IOA's or VIOA's, II don't see where you get off interpreting how and when the manual is used. as it takes training which you lack, to interpret and use this tool wisely.
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#22 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 06:57 PM

Medwyn from 1990 until 1997 I studied this problem of transferable skills. My research ranged from discussions with the actual person in New Zealand that was was possible for the production of the New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations, Bill Birch, various leaders in industry and software developments for the purposes of building a computerised data matching system so as invalids such as ourselves can utilise our residual capacity to the maximum extent practicable. As Bill Birch and warned me this would not make me the friend ACC, WINZ or immigration. He was right but then he is a politician after all and understand such matters. I am only person who knows how to interpret facts.

ACC wanted me to utilise my two hours per day residual capacity to reduce their liability and it required that I produce a business plan while I was waiting for surgery to return me to my preinjury occupation. When I presented this business plan the ACC accused me of working in order to produce that plan and other plans.

I know a great deal about this subject and have been involved in the subject matter a little more than perhaps you are imagining.
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#23 User is offline   Medwyn 

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 08:41 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on Jul 12 2008, 06:57 PM, said:

Medwyn from 1990 until 1997 I studied this problem of transferable skills. My research ranged from discussions with the actual person in New Zealand that was was possible for the production of the New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations, Bill Birch, various leaders in industry and software developments for the purposes of building a computerised data matching system so as invalids such as ourselves can utilise our residual capacity to the maximum extent practicable. As Bill Birch and warned me this would not make me the friend ACC, WINZ or immigration. He was right but then he is a politician after all and understand such matters. I am only person who knows how to interpret facts.

ACC wanted me to utilise my two hours per day residual capacity to reduce their liability and it required that I produce a business plan while I was waiting for surgery to return me to my preinjury occupation. When I presented this business plan the ACC accused me of working in order to produce that plan and other plans.

I know a great deal about this subject and have been involved in the subject matter a little more than perhaps you are imagining.


Knowing and utilising it are two vastly different things. same as speaking German or French, we may know the language but do we know the intent or the nuances? In your case is suggest you do not, and your pontificating manner will not convince me otherwise.

With your vast knowledge of Transferable Skills, why have you not utilised your "residual capacity" to make a manual or guide to make ACC and their assessors live's more easier when it comes to skill matching.

Like a Springbox coach, all talk and very little substance.

Knowing Bill Birch is nothing to be proud of as the man stuffed tis country in more ways than one as is nose got browner on Muldoon's tail.
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#24 User is offline   freefallnz 

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 11:36 AM

Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations. 2006 (10Mb).

Note the appendum 30'th June 2008..

The Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (ANZSCO) is the product of a development program undertaken jointly by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS), Statistics New Zealand (Statistics NZ) and the Australian Government Department of Employment and Workplace Relations (DEWR) for use in the collection, publication and analysis of occupation statistics.

ANZSCO replaces the Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition and the New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (NZSCO) 1999 used in Australia and New Zealand, respectively. ANZSCO is intended to provide an integrated framework for storing, organising and reporting occupation-related information in both statistical and client-oriented applications, such as matching job seekers to job vacancies and providing career information. The use of ANZSCO will result in improved comparability of occupation statistics produced by the two countries.

This product is a reference document intended to provide a detailed account of the content and structure of ANZSCO and to assist the interpretation of statistics classified to it. It comprises an explanation of the conceptual basis of the classification, the classification structure and definitions for all levels of the classification (major, sub-major, minor and unit groups and occupations). The primary purposes of this product are to aid in the interpretation of ABS and Statistics NZ occupation statistics and to provide detailed information about the occupations identified in the classification. It is not intended as a means of assigning information about particular jobs to ANZSCO occupations.

Care needs to taken when assigning information about particular jobs to ANZSCO occupations because the same job titles can be used in different industries to describe different occupations (e.g. business analyst). Additionally, the titles used in ANZSCO are not an exhaustive list of all titles used by people to describe an occupation (e.g. brickie).

To enable easier and faster coding of occupation information, the ABS and Statistics NZ have developed their own Windows-based coding systems. These coding systems are based on an index (or codefile) of responses given in ABS and Statistics NZ collections. Primary importance is given to the occupation title. Extensive use is also made of main tasks performed in the job.

Further information about ANZSCO, including the ABS and Statistics NZ coding systems, can be obtained from the ABS National Information and Referral Service on 1300 135 070 or Statistics NZ's Information Centre on 0508 525 525.
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#25 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 03:59 PM

Obviously for purposes of rehabilitation the information found on the ANZSCO on its own is not sufficient to determine suitability for any of the occupations listed alone based on just the qualification skill and experience listed in this manual but it is a very good starting point. Unfortunately the ACC propaganda leads people to think their own derivative of this document is the end point. Although legislation and some case law might give that impression the point of law is not actually got that far.

Ultimately be rehabilitated person must be able to earn at that particular occupation. This is not a subjective opinion but ultimately an objective criteria. The difficulty is quantifying that criteria. To my understanding the ACC contracted assessors have no method of making an objective determination.
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#26 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 04:52 PM

Ohhh puck me dead!!!

"I am only a person who knows how to interpret facts"!!!!

More like a person "who cant see the wood for the trees," as one good judge put it.

Slightly overstated Mr Thomas!!!
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#27 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 05:17 PM

Mini I'm trying to say that occupational assessors do not have appropriate mechanisms by which the facts can be determined. I'm saying that the issue quantifying occupations for purposes of rehabilitation is somewhat more complex than what is currently being delivered in reports to the ACC and the courts.
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#28 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 07:03 PM

Medwyn it is perhaps best that you focus on the thread rather than myself. The purpose of the site is that we should exchange our opinions, viewpoints and known facts. Your attacks against myself as a person is both tiresome and inappropriate. I trust that you will either edit or delete some of your recent postings so as to tidy up this site, particularly on this important issue concerning the quantification of occupation for rehabilitation purposes.


To promote the concept that more information is needed than the to the point that the task activity and task requirements need to be comprehensively described we only need to look at one fellow that I was assisting who was driving trucks up-and-down New Zealand roads without any legs and whether or not it was safe. Or we could look at the case of Burnett who was driving trucks for a number of years even though he was brain-damaged without any form of assessment to know that it was safe. In both cases the ACC fraud unit and ACC itself argued a commonsense arguments that as they were actually driving they could drive and therefore had been rehabilitated. The real issue is whether or not they should drive and had actually been rehabilitated.

This argument requires proper criteria. Perhaps Mad Mac or Easyrider might be able to comment upon the criteria necessary to reach driving at a satisfactory level.
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#29 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 08:49 PM

Why don't you all read the documentation. the sheets are only guide lines and do not cover all details of occupations.

the sheets do not cover all aspects of the occupations and never will.

the purpose of the sheets is for determining whether or not skill in one occupation could be transfered to another occupation.

the documentation are not meant to be used as a court document in describing the complete tasks of an occupations.

If lawyers used there brain most cases would not survive using these documents.

remember that they are only a guide line not a true factural tasks in all occupations.

Check out Doctor.
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#30 User is offline   Medwyn 

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 09:11 PM

View Postdoppelganger, on Jul 13 2008, 08:49 PM, said:

Why don't you all read the documentation. the sheets are only guide lines and do not cover all details of occupations.

the sheets do not cover all aspects of the occupations and never will.

the purpose of the sheets is for determining whether or not skill in one occupation could be transfered to another occupation.

the documentation are not meant to be used as a court document in describing the complete tasks of an occupations.

If lawyers used there brain most cases would not survive using these documents.

remember that they are only a guide line not a true factural tasks in all occupations.

Check out Doctor.

Dopple , you nailed it exactly with words I tried to find, they are a guide and a tool only.

Only time and legal challenge will see your statement "If lawyers used there brain most cases would not survive using these documents." become fact
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