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Paying Back Acc

#1 User is offline   juddy25 

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 04:27 PM

Hi all just wondering if anyone here has had to pay back ACC money?
Im currently getting an abatement,working 9hrs a week,my employer has sent in a letter to ACC saying he will pay me a certain amount weekly,but If I work more hours than 9 a week,he pays me extra for it,but ACC penalises me and makes me pay it back!Is this my fault that Im doing a bit extra now and then,is this not what they want?
Had this twice now,the last one is happening now,I have to pay back $115,my cm sent me an email saying it was ACC's fault,they miscalculated,but now I have to pay this back,Im pissed off,any suggestions?
Thanking you
Judd. :blink:
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#2 User is offline   fairgo 

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 04:34 PM

LOL sorry Judd. ACC have it over you everytime! The abatement of earnings is one area which really gets up my nose. Basically if you get a wage rise ACC takes it. That is why after moving up the ladder (albiet in a part time capacity) My capped earnings are $15,000 BELOW my actual payrate. My injury occurred in '89 when I was earning approx $38,000 pa. With annual adjustments that is now approx $42,000 BUT my actual payrate is now $57,000 pa of which I earn .4 pro rata.

Therefore as years go by I continue to earn more but I don't actually benefit..... ACC does, as they are only topping up my earnings to $42,000.
Talk about a disincentive.........
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#3 User is offline   Easyrider 

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 06:11 PM

You should be advising ACC each week on what ammount you earn. Then you will not be overpaid. The easiest way is to fax a form signed by your employer the Gross ammount paid to you each week.
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#4 User is offline   freefallnz 

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 09:03 PM

Oh yes the ACC clerical error. that they require remedied ASAP

However they cannot snatch it all back in one hit.. As no doubt they would like too.

Offer to repay at a reasonable rate.. say $10.00 a week.

They will not like it... But they have to be REASONABLE... Their Mistake..

Good advice above.. Fax your weekly payslip to ACC.. And yes your employer must provide you with a wage slip every time your pay changes.. i.e. extra hours.

Of course at the end of the financial year you will require from ACC an accounting of your earnings so that you can reconcile your TAX statement..

It pays to keep keep a very close eye on ACC's calculations...
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#5 User is offline   juddy25 

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 01:22 PM

Hi Guys thanks for getting back to me,I don't know the abatement rates,they've never been told to me.
And also because the company where I'm working has just started out so they have not set up pay slips for me,they pay me weekly into my bank account which ACC takes there contribution from!
Today I receieved my letter from ACC saying that I'd been over paid and I must pay it back ASAP,I have discussed with my case manager and sorted out a resonable compromise for this!
A previous case manager loaded my details wrong,saying FULLY UNFIT FOR WORK,instead of FIT FOR SELECTED WORK ON ABATEMENT.
But what really pisses me off is that they have already taken $100 without my being told!
BUT.......wait for it..........they have enclosed also a letter saying we should WORK TOGETHER!
any thoughts?is this common?its the first time its happened to me.....
Judd. :blink:
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#6 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 05:37 PM

Judy your abatement rates are as follows.

Abatement
49.Earnings definitions for purposes of clause 51—
(1)In clause 51(1), ``earnings'' does not include weekly compensation or any other entitlement payable under this schedule.
(2)In clause 51(1), ``earnings'' includes any payment (in addition to a payment for work actually undertaken by the claimant) made by the claimant's employer during the claimant's incapacity that exceeds the difference between—
(a)the level of the claimant's actual earnings immediately before his or her incapacity commenced; and
(b)the level of the claimant's weekly compensation.

(3)In clause 51(1) and (2), ``earnings'' includes any payment made on the termination of employment in respect of leave entitlements. The Corporation must treat such a payment as having been derived after the termination of employment for a period that is equal to the total period that the claimant could have taken as leave if the claimant had not received the payment.
(4)In clause 51(1) and (2)—
(a)``earnings'' includes payments—
(i)whether made in New Zealand or overseas:
(ii)whether made in New Zealand currency or an overseas currency:
(b)``employment'' includes employment whether in New Zealand or overseas.
(5)Payments made in an overseas currency must be treated as having been converted into New Zealand currency at the average rate of foreign exchange offered, at the date of payment, by registered banks in New Zealand.

Cf 1998 No 114 Schedule 1 cl 23

50.Estimation for abatement purposes of earnings that cannot be ascertained—

(1)This clause applies to a claimant who has—
(a)earnings as a self-employed person; or
(b)earnings as a shareholder-employee.
(2)This clause applies when the Corporation cannot readily ascertain, for abatement purposes, the claimant's actual earnings during a particular period, during incapacity.
(3)In order to calculate the claimant's earnings under this Part, the Corporation may estimate an amount that represents reasonable remuneration for the claimant during the period.

(4)The Corporation must have regard to—
(a)the evidence available of the claimant's earnings; and
(b)the nature of the claimant's employment immediately before his or her incapacity commenced; and
©the nature of the claimant's employment that the claimant has during the period of incapacity.

51.Abatement of compensation—

Quote

(1)In calculating weekly compensation under this Part, the Corporation must reduce the amount of weekly compensation paid to a claimant by— 
  (a)24 cents for every $1 of earnings derived during the period of incapacity in excess of $56.67 a week, but not in excess of $90.62 a week; and 
  (b)56 cents for every $1 of earnings derived during the period of incapacity in excess of $90.62 a week. 


(2)The Corporation must also reduce the amount of weekly compensation paid so as to ensure that the total of the claimant's weekly compensation and earnings after his or her incapacity commences does not exceed the claimant's weekly earnings as calculated under clauses 33 to 45 or 47.

(3)The weekly amounts in subclause (1) must be adjusted in the manner provided in section 115.

(4)The amount of a claimant's weekly earnings under subclause (2) must be adjusted in the manner provided in section 115.

Cf 1998 No 114 Schedule 1 cl 24


Notice that if you earn less than $56.67 per week there is no abatement.

may be since the corporation could not tell you of the legistation may be the case manager didn't know what the abatements were or was so dum that couldn't work them out. There have been increases that also must be taken into account and I know that there has just been a new increase
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#7 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 06:22 PM

this is the increases that I know of but I don't have the latest increase or from what date. if someone can tell me I'll add this to the chart.

Attached File(s)


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#8 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 10:24 AM

View Postfairgo, on Jun 11 2005, 05:34 PM, said:

LOL sorry Judd. ACC have it over you everytime! The abatement of earnings is one area which really gets up my nose. Basically if you get a wage rise ACC takes it. That is why after moving up the ladder (albiet in a part time capacity) My capped earnings are $15,000 BELOW my actual payrate. My injury occurred in '89 when I was earning approx $38,000 pa. With annual adjustments that is now approx $42,000 BUT my actual payrate is now $57,000 pa of which I earn .4 pro rata.

Therefore as years go by I continue to earn more but I don't actually benefit..... ACC does, as they are only topping up my earnings to $42,000.
Talk about a disincentive.........


Can you advise on whether this abatement is correct please. It doesn't seem right to me.

They talk about incentive....I can't find any.

Your current weekly compensation payments are gross $351.63 which is 80%
of your pre injury earnings.

Your earnings per week in NZ$gross for each of the two weeks you have
worked are $222.47

Together they total your gross earnings for each of the two weeks as
$574.10.

Your 100% weekly compensation of $351.63 is deducted from this total
earnings amount which leaves an overpayment of $134.56 a week for two
weeks. This leaves a balance of $269.12 to be recovered from you.

The way she has done this means every penny over the 80% erc has been crabbed back.

There has been no allowance made for the 20% which I understood I was entitled to have.

Thanks for any help Gloria.
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#9 User is offline   fairgo 

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 10:44 AM

If you notice Gloria they have said that the $351.63 is 100% of your pre accident income. I believe it should be 80% from what you have indicated earlier. Therefore this is wrong.

Quote

gross $351.63 which is 80%
of your pre injury earnings.



Quote

Your 100% weekly compensation of $351.63 is deducted from this total


To my mind if $351.63 is 80% then 100% would be $439.53

Then abated income goes like this - the first $64 -no abatement
From $64 - $90 odd - 24c in the $
Over $90 - 56c in the dollar
Until you reach $439.53 then it is $ for $

All complex but the reality is they have stuffed up the % figures. Point that out and get them to do it again AND send you the calculations form which they have to do for each abatement of earnings.



Oh and I should say that my income is now $64,000 pro rata and I'm still capped at around $43,000 - over a $20,000 difference..... that sucks!
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#10 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 11:28 AM

Hi and yes there is a lot of mistakes.

your 100% is 439.53 or 439.54 if rounding.

your earnings per week $222.47 or $547.10 per fortnight my calculator doesn't get that answer either way I do it.

based on $222.47 your abatement's are $76.42

If we take $76.42 away from $439.47 we have $363.12

ACC is not allowed to pay more than the weekly earnings as per clause 33 to 45 or 47 (100% of calculated earnings.

so we have $439.54 less what you earned $222.47 leaving ACC to pay you $217.07 as this is the lesser figure

Hope that will help

Quote

the lower amount in my working has been adjusted to $64.07 while the upper amount has been adjusted to $102.45 as per section 115.

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#11 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 12:43 PM

Thankyou for your help.

Fairgo that does suck.......it has always bugged me that the longer you need erc the less it becomes in real terms.

I shake my head at the stupid mistakes they make and how much they are willing to try it on....and thankyou both for clarifying its not only me being stupid on this. They so love to mess with my mind.

Thanks all. Gloria.
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#12 User is offline   Gloria Mitchell 

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 04:48 PM

View PostGloria Mitchell, on Oct 5 2007, 01:43 PM, said:

Thankyou for your help.

Fairgo that does suck.......it has always bugged me that the longer you need erc the less it becomes in real terms.

I shake my head at the stupid mistakes they make and how much they are willing to try it on....and thankyou both for clarifying its not only me being stupid on this. They so love to mess with my mind.

Thanks all. Gloria.



Well now, she is sorry for causing me any anxiety....and recalculations go like this.

"Your earnings per week in NZ$gross for each of the two weeks you have
worked are $222.47

Together they total your gross earnings for each of the two weeks as
$574.10.

Your usual weekly compensation of $351.63 (80%) is deducted from this
total earnings amount (because this has already been paid to you) and
leaves an overpayment of $134.56 a week for two weeks and a balance of
$269.12 to be recovered from you. The amount you currently earn and the
amount that is deducted leaves you with the gross income for the week of
$439.54 which is your 100% amount.

Usual WC 351.63
Earnings +222.47
Total =574.10
Debt -134.56
100% 439.54 "


back to the drawing board. Gloria.
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#13 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 08:17 PM

She got the pver payment correct $134.56 per week


now the rest of the figures ar that the Gross figure $574.10 is the gross that is paid to you by ACC and your employer

Most people would have put the debt at the bottom and not in the middle of the calulations.
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#14 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 10:02 AM

and just so that peoples can work out the compensation entitlements I have place it on a spread sheet format.

this only is when the 2001 Act came into force and gives all increases even if you are not being abated.

there is nothing stopping me from modifying the spread sheet at any time and this will be done.

well I am unable to up load the file in any format on to the forum so if you want it Pm me with email address and will give you access.
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