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#1 User is offline   Rickster 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 09:12 AM

I put my first post on yest
I have read quite a bit of what obviously are a cross section of people and if even half of what people are saying is true the whole system in fact society is getting sicker

We have doctors being paid indecent amounts of money to examine people and supposedly back acc in their agendas
So perhaps I am about to show my lack of knowledge on how the system works.
The people within acc who are instrumental in getting these people installed in these positions.
What do they get out of it?
Backhanders?
Bonuses for saving Acc money?
Because these days most people don't do anything or go out on a limb unless they get paid for it.
Trust has gone, decency, caring.
Honesty is long gone.
Perhaps, everyone as they approach old age criticise the way the world appears to them.

But reading some of the stories that are appearing there are some very cruel people within acc
So maybe it's more than just money some of these people are there for.
So what else?
Power?
Many people these days don't want to work hard to achieve power or position or wealth or all 3
They prefer to achieve it the easy way.
I would love to be proven wrong I really would as I'm sure there are still a lot of decent people in acc as I have met them but everyone should be like that as everyone they come in contact with need help.... After all that's what acc is for
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#2 User is offline   Rickster 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 09:16 AM

I also meant to say that there are of course the dishonest on the other side...... IE the person who can work and prefers to scam acc so it must be hard trying to act caring but sort out these thieves as they are just as bad as the ones I just describedvealier
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#3 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 11:05 AM

View PostRickster, on 23 September 2018 - 09:12 AM, said:

I put my first post on yest
I have read quite a bit of what obviously are a cross section of people and if even half of what people are saying is true the whole system in fact society is getting sicker

We have doctors being paid indecent amounts of money to examine people and supposedly back acc in their agendas
So perhaps I am about to show my lack of knowledge on how the system works.
The people within acc who are instrumental in getting these people installed in these positions.
What do they get out of it?
Backhanders?
Bonuses for saving Acc money?
Because these days most people don't do anything or go out on a limb unless they get paid for it.
Trust has gone, decency, caring.
Honesty is long gone.
Perhaps, everyone as they approach old age criticise the way the world appears to them.

But reading some of the stories that are appearing there are some very cruel people within acc
So maybe it's more than just money some of these people are there for.
So what else?
Power?
Many people these days don't want to work hard to achieve power or position or wealth or all 3
They prefer to achieve it the easy way.
I would love to be proven wrong I really would as I'm sure there are still a lot of decent people in acc as I have met them but everyone should be like that as everyone they come in contact with need help.... After all that's what acc is for


the concept of having a state owned Corporation to provide such things as insurance is totally and completely socialist in its objectives. No socialist scheme in the world has ever survived long-term. The only reason such a monopoly functions is that it has the force of law behind it while itself is the lawmaker as we have seen with successive governments in New Zealand both of which have socialist idealisations. As such schemes progress over time you will find that there will be an ever increasing frequency of bureaucratic manipulation in an attempt to keep it going.


The nature of the corruption has its origins in individuals being idealistic and needing power to enforce those belief systems. Once having the capacity to exercise power ultimately the power will corrupt. This does not need to be for the purposes of money but over the years we have seen instances where money has been a motivating factor for corruption within the ACC. ACC staff are paid a little more than than what they could expect in the open market place and even more importantly greater job security. We see ACC staff remaining in their positions for decades which is quite unusual and even unnatural. Apparently there is quite a lot of internal bullying within the ACC with the result that at the lower levels, the frontline staff, tend to believe those they are meant to be serving, the injured. Obviously it takes a particular type of personality defect to be bullying an invalid. the criteria for employing frontline staff involves personality profiling. further the ACC seemed their staff to luxury resorts for awards and motivational adjustments wish the desired outcome is to reinforce company policy as opposed to legislated obedience. It seems strange that the company policy centres around staff making decisions based on their own understanding of the legislation without any training with the support of group decision-making which results in a second sense whereby if a claimants are processed through the system and out the other end without too much complaint keep on doing just that.

Simplifying the situation to its extreme is that we have paid an insurance premium with the expectation that if we are injured and can no longer earn we will receive earnings compensation until such time as we are healed by way of medical treatment and can return to the preinjury earnings capacity in the same job or that the ACC fund for no more than three years training so as to achieve a similar qualification and skill level utilising residual capacity resulting in a genuine capacity to earn. If we find that the percentage of claimants accident the scheme do not gain a capacity to earn and end up on an invalid's benefit instead we see that the ACC have produced a false document for the purposes of their own pecuniary advantage at the loss of the taxpayer who ends up picking the bill by way of social welfare with the claimant personally suffering losses for the difference. Only 15% of marriages survive this circumstance and as such this impacts upon the overall community at large as well. Quite clearly such decision-makers that the survey ACC legislation in favour of ACC Corporation policy have committed crimes against the individual and the community and deserve to be incarcerated so as to discourage other ACC staff members from disobeying the ACC legislation.



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#4 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 11:08 AM

View PostRickster, on 23 September 2018 - 09:16 AM, said:

I also meant to say that there are of course the dishonest on the other side...... IE the person who can work and prefers to scam acc so it must be hard trying to act caring but sort out these thieves as they are just as bad as the ones I just describedvealier


the international rates of insurance fraud of the type you are describing is only a few percent.

The percentage rate of ACC claimants excepting the ACC scheme without gaining a capacity to earn either by medical treatment or by rehabilitation into a new occupation is directed by ACC corporate policy in the very high percentile with any challenges to that except by way of review hearing 70% in the ACC favour and again another 70% in the favour of the ACC when appealing a review hearing decision to the district court.

The United Nations has instructed New Zealand that the ACC claimant access to judicial processes to challenge ACC decision making is far from satisfactory. Most injured our to disabled both physically and financially to challenge a multibillion-dollar Corporation.

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#5 User is offline   Rickster 

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 04:24 PM

Actually I almost laughed at the reply from the manager in my area
I have made some bad business decisions after being on a drug they give early in your becoming paralysed to help come to terms with the change in your life
7 years later I'm having anxiety attacks and behaving rather erratically etc
It wasn't until much later my sister found out that I should only have been on it for a short while!
As I said 7 years later and having been sent to several high price pain management and drug experts who said nothing about still being on the shit (should have known this)
I asked for a little bit of help from ACC
Almost by return email it came back. No"! Although they offered me some counselling. Wow! Whoopdee shit!
7 years too late anyway
What a joke
The thing I was asking for prob wouldn't have cost much more than some high priced councillor.
The thing I've noticed about acc is they will spend $10 to save 50cents
But when something makes absolute business sense they shy away from it.
I know I'm veering away from the original topic but I'm someone who started a business from nothing so hopefully I can see the wood from the trees
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#6 User is offline   tommy 

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Posted 29 September 2018 - 09:20 PM

nothing hs changed , rikcster , as I insurers , maximising profits , at whoms ................... then as a claimant , do as all one can
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#7 User is offline   magnacarta 

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 09:08 AM

I had said this before - The ACC is not an insurance corporation.

It operates under a "social contract' as prescribed in the section 3 Purpose of the AC Act 2001.

Wrongly, the present ACC Minister and the Government still continues to describe ACC as "social insurance" and journalists still describe ACC as a "Public Insurer"

It is well settled in the Court of Appeal that ACC is nothing of the kind.

The public continues to be misled and therefore continues to be deliberately confused.

As far as corruption is concerned, Clause 20 of Schedule 5 of the Act prescribes that ACC must ensure that all employees maintain proper standards of integrity and concern....

Furthermore, ACC is not subject to income tax like companies and particularly insurance companies.

And yet ACC still wants to raise levies while having $37 billion in investments - how greedy can you get?

And just how many life-time claimants are still on its books since the inception of the Scheme in 1972 which it now claims is a reason for wanting to raise levies so as to support life-time claimants?

As always, money is the enemy of truth.
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#8 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 11:03 AM

 magnacarta, on 30 September 2018 - 09:08 AM, said:

I had said this before - The ACC is not an insurance corporation.

It operates under a "social contract' as prescribed in the section 3 Purpose of the AC Act 2001.

Wrongly, the present ACC Minister and the Government still continues to describe ACC as "social insurance" and journalists still describe ACC as a "Public Insurer"

It is well settled in the Court of Appeal that ACC is nothing of the kind.

The public continues to be misled and therefore continues to be deliberately confused.

As far as corruption is concerned, Clause 20 of Schedule 5 of the Act prescribes that ACC must ensure that all employees maintain proper standards of integrity and concern....

Furthermore, ACC is not subject to income tax like companies and particularly insurance companies.

And yet ACC still wants to raise levies while having $37 billion in investments - how greedy can you get?

And just how many life-time claimants are still on its books since the inception of the Scheme in 1972 which it now claims is a reason for wanting to raise levies so as to support life-time claimants?

As always, money is the enemy of truth.


Magna Carta while from a strictly legal point of view which is confirmed by the courts I agree that the ACC is not an insurance Corporation. However was of the government's intention that this is state-owned corporation, the accident compensation Corporation, replace the need for insurance against accident events involving the person? So it is quite understandable that the ordinary man, including myself, use the ACC as a state owned entity in the form of an insurance Corporation.
Because we are dealing with a "social" insurance scheme am I fair to say that the ACC was intended to be a socialist scheme? Since when has any socialist scheme or government throughout the world ever truly benefited the people in the long term? I would go so far as to say that socialism has never ever succeeded, not even once! Typically socialist schemes can last for up to 30 to 50 years. During the initial phases all parties are quite optimistic and it does seem to work however generally they suffer from overspending. This comes about because people are not spending their own money and spending becomes quite willy-nilly with some receiving funding that they are not entitled to while others receive none. Those in authority of the scheme then seek more regulations of their own making which over time lose sight of the original objectives which invites even more regulations and more levels of incompetency. Complaining increases at an exponential rate which is the phase we are now. This will be followed by even more authoritarian and draconian power struggles throughout the whole scheme with those the scheme serves being the least served. The corruption that we are seeing is primarily whereby those in power seek to maintain their power and not have their mistakes discovered which is of course at the cost of those they serve who perceive the corruption but not necessarily knowing the form of the corruption. The evolutionary developments that we are seeing are inevitable. As the scheme has even proven to overpower various governments along the way it is not likely that various fragments and minor interest groups whatever successfully challenged this multibillion dollar corporation. As I explained to Douglas weal when he visited my home the very best that we can do is to help one another by guiding each other through the labyrinth created by this behemoth, the ACC. As we all know he took a different view and was even willing to take advantage of his fellow claimants in his quest to terrorise the ACC on the basis that they are amenable to such terrorism as they expect terrorist attacks from those they serve thus demonstrating their guilty mind.
Very occasionally we hear of the state servants employed by the ACC engaging in corrupt practices for financial gain. However this form of corruption is comparatively rare compared with overseas countries. Likewise those who benefit from the scheme, we the claimants, do not have any major tendencies towards for doing practices. However this multibillion dollar corporation seeks to frighten the hell out of claimants by all manner of different false allegations and with the weight of their multibillion dollar corporation successfully convict a few to frighten the rest. Is the corruption for financial gain for the individual or is it corruption for the sake of maintaining power? There are many opinions on that question.
With regards to the primary difference between an ordinary commercial insurance Corporation and the ACC we find that the ACC now seeks to overcharge levies so as to collect a large pool of money from which it claims that the interest will ultimately fund the entire scheme so neatly paying will not continue to be necessary while of course you ordinary insurance Corporation only charges what is sufficient to meet its liabilities together with sufficient for an acceptable level of profits to the extent that they won't go out of business because of competing companies undercutting them along with maintaining their own integrity so as they will not lose customers to other companies who have a high level of integrity. It is difficult for me to believe that a socialist-based scheme is truly going to a mass so many billions and billions of dollars from the grandparents to pay for the insurance of the grandchildren not yet born. With such a large amount of money who are they securing, the future of those who are not yet born for the future of themselves with so much power over so much money?

All commercial insurance companies are required to maintain funding for their contingent liabilities. This would include all claimants from which the ACC have not issued a decision with regards to cover or the level of entitlements for all the instances whereby they have not abate the legislation to determine what those entitlements shall be. This would also be the same for all claimants that because of various illegal legal manoeuvrings the ACC have obeyed of their liabilities. For example accusations of fraud which have been used to chase away claimants or even prosecute them without benefit of the required legislated criteria to determine entitlement outweigh contested claims based on those who have gone through an assessment process to mix of the claimant's though the ACC if not provided the assessors the relevant information on files which of course is ACC insurance fraud. What percentage of time does the ACC commit these types of fraud against those they serve. More to the point why should such corruption exist in a socialist scheme whereby the decisionmaker is not actually make a decision for their own financial gain?

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#9 User is offline   tommy 

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 09:30 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on 30 September 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

Magna Carta while from a strictly legal point of view which is confirmed by the courts I agree that the ACC is not an insurance Corporation. However was of the government's intention that this is state-owned corporation, the accident compensation Corporation, replace the need for insurance against accident events involving the person? So it is quite understandable that the ordinary man, including myself, use the ACC as a state owned entity in the form of an insurance Corporation.
Because we are dealing with a "social" insurance scheme am I fair to say that the ACC was intended to be a socialist scheme? Since when has any socialist scheme or government throughout the world ever truly benefited the people in the long term? I would go so far as to say that socialism has never ever succeeded, not even once! Typically socialist schemes can last for up to 30 to 50 years. During the initial phases all parties are quite optimistic and it does seem to work however generally they suffer from overspending. This comes about because people are not spending their own money and spending becomes quite willy-nilly with some receiving funding that they are not entitled to while others receive none. Those in authority of the scheme then seek more regulations of their own making which over time lose sight of the original objectives which invites even more regulations and more levels of incompetency. Complaining increases at an exponential rate which is the phase we are now. This will be followed by even more authoritarian and draconian power struggles throughout the whole scheme with those the scheme serves being the least served. The corruption that we are seeing is primarily whereby those in power seek to maintain their power and not have their mistakes discovered which is of course at the cost of those they serve who perceive the corruption but not necessarily knowing the form of the corruption. The evolutionary developments that we are seeing are inevitable. As the scheme has even proven to overpower various governments along the way it is not likely that various fragments and minor interest groups whatever successfully challenged this multibillion dollar corporation. As I explained to Douglas weal when he visited my home the very best that we can do is to help one another by guiding each other through the labyrinth created by this behemoth, the ACC. As we all know he took a different view and was even willing to take advantage of his fellow claimants in his quest to terrorise the ACC on the basis that they are amenable to such terrorism as they expect terrorist attacks from those they serve thus demonstrating their guilty mind.
Very occasionally we hear of the state servants employed by the ACC engaging in corrupt practices for financial gain. However this form of corruption is comparatively rare compared with overseas countries. Likewise those who benefit from the scheme, we the claimants, do not have any major tendencies towards for doing practices. However this multibillion dollar corporation seeks to frighten the hell out of claimants by all manner of different false allegations and with the weight of their multibillion dollar corporation successfully convict a few to frighten the rest. Is the corruption for financial gain for the individual or is it corruption for the sake of maintaining power? There are many opinions on that question.
With regards to the primary difference between an ordinary commercial insurance Corporation and the ACC we find that the ACC now seeks to overcharge levies so as to collect a large pool of money from which it claims that the interest will ultimately fund the entire scheme so neatly paying will not continue to be necessary while of course you ordinary insurance Corporation only charges what is sufficient to meet its liabilities together with sufficient for an acceptable level of profits to the extent that they won't go out of business because of competing companies undercutting them along with maintaining their own integrity so as they will not lose customers to other companies who have a high level of integrity. It is difficult for me to believe that a socialist-based scheme is truly going to a mass so many billions and billions of dollars from the grandparents to pay for the insurance of the grandchildren not yet born. With such a large amount of money who are they securing, the future of those who are not yet born for the future of themselves with so much power over so much money?

All commercial insurance companies are required to maintain funding for their contingent liabilities. This would include all claimants from which the ACC have not issued a decision with regards to cover or the level of entitlements for all the instances whereby they have not abate the legislation to determine what those entitlements shall be. This would also be the same for all claimants that because of various illegal legal manoeuvrings the ACC have obeyed of their liabilities. For example accusations of fraud which have been used to chase away claimants or even prosecute them without benefit of the required legislated criteria to determine entitlement outweigh contested claims based on those who have gone through an assessment process to mix of the claimant's though the ACC if not provided the assessors the relevant information on files which of course is ACC insurance fraud. What percentage of time does the ACC commit these types of fraud against those they serve. More to the point why should such corruption exist in a socialist scheme whereby the decisionmaker is not actually make a decision for their own financial gain?

nothing has changed , allan , apart from time :P
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#10 User is offline   tommy 

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 09:32 PM

View Posttommy, on 30 September 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

nothing has changed , allan , apart from time :P/>/>

BTW B, allan , you had associations , with , a hierachy , , as bill birch , :rolleyes:/>
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