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MEDICAL AND WORK CAPABILITY ASSESSMENTS

#1 User is offline   greg 

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 06:27 AM

well worth the time reading;



https://nzsocialjust...3.wordpress.com
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#2 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 04:22 PM

View Postgreg, on 30 November 2017 - 06:27 AM, said:

well worth the time reading;



https://nzsocialjust...3.wordpress.com


Greg

Apart from the copy and post, who wrote it?

Mini
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#3 User is offline   tommy 

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 06:36 PM

the comment as in " whom wrote" mini does then whom raises multiple issues , discussions etc , As in your posting 2
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#4 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 08:39 AM

View Posttommy, on 30 November 2017 - 06:36 PM, said:

the comment as in " whom wrote" mini does then whom raises multiple issues , discussions etc , As in your posting 2


Whatever Tommy, it is a waste of time reading a document that cannot be used for court action. And if it does not have the proper criteria, it will not be allowed as evidence.

Mini
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#5 User is offline   Marc 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 04:55 PM

Perhaps this may also be of some interest to some readers here:


https://nzsocialjust...complaint-case/


I would guess, the authors there want to remain anonymous for good reasons. Perhaps they have had certain experiences with the persons and agencies they write about, hence revealing identities could make them the target of those who object to be 'outed' and exposed for what they are doing.

Not everything that is written and available needs to be presented in a way that reveals the actual authors, it is important to point to issues, so the readers out there can inform themselves, hopefully learn, and take matters and their own grievances further. There should be enough available in case law, on this site, and elsewhere, that can help claimants to deal with ACC, and the law is an evolving subject matter anyway, new precedents are set from time to time.
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#6 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:23 PM

View PostMarc, on 05 December 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

Perhaps this may also be of some interest to some readers here:


https://nzsocialjust...complaint-case/


I would guess, the authors there want to remain anonymous for good reasons. Perhaps they have had certain experiences with the persons and agencies they write about, hence revealing identities could make them the target of those who object to be 'outed' and exposed for what they are doing.

Not everything that is written and available needs to be presented in a way that reveals the actual authors, it is important to point to issues, so the readers out there can inform themselves, hopefully learn, and take matters and their own grievances further. There should be enough available in case law, on this site, and elsewhere, that can help claimants to deal with ACC, and the law is an evolving subject matter anyway, new precedents are set from time to time.


Marc

So correct but I would want the necessary information that makes it law, not just an upset or aggrieved claimants persons lashing out at certain bodies so they are afraid to be named. There becomes a time in your fight for justice that you really don't care who knows who you are because if you shoot straight you have no reason to worry. Its a matter of keeping an honest set of fingers on the key board and not putting people down, even if they do drive you a little loopy. Most of us on here know what kind of fight we have to put up to win anything and most of the time it is only money that stops us. But with the money we can do our best to fight for our rights.

Having said that I will read the document you have put up and see if it interests me.

cheers
Mini
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#7 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:32 PM

View PostMINI, on 07 December 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

Marc

So correct but I would want the necessary information that makes it law, not just an upset or aggrieved claimants persons lashing out at certain bodies so they are afraid to be named. There becomes a time in your fight for justice that you really don't care who knows who you are because if you shoot straight you have no reason to worry. Its a matter of keeping an honest set of fingers on the key board and not putting people down, even if they do drive you a little loopy. Most of us on here know what kind of fight we have to put up to win anything and most of the time it is only money that stops us. But with the money we can do our best to fight for our rights.

Having said that I will read the document you have put up and see if it interests me.

cheers
Mini


Personally I would use the Human Rights Principles before I went to so much trouble to claw so many different departments into what will probably end up there anyway.

Just my thoughts.

Mini
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#8 User is offline   tommy 

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:07 PM

your thoughts are correct , mini , as in departments , of where a claimant proceeds ,but alas ,as at what cost , as in time , monies etc , which raises the question of your long standing grievences claim towards the corporation , are you making progress or is it just An exercise towards others aa in suggesting it is not easy
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#9 User is offline   Marc 

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:27 PM

View PostMINI, on 07 December 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

Personally I would use the Human Rights Principles before I went to so much trouble to claw so many different departments into what will probably end up there anyway.

Just my thoughts.

Mini


I understand your thoughts, your situation and priorities.

But if you had read the other post you will also have noticed, that very few names are mentioned, for privacy reasons, basically only the decision maker, or opinion former, i. e. one of the Ombudsmen was named in documentation and text.

And re taking it to the Human Rights Commissioner, the HRRT or so, a person does usually require some resources, some finance that would help, to get proper legal advice, as otherwise it may not lead to much, when filing a claim. The HRC maybe less formal than the courts, but even they do not want to deal with stuff that may either be overly complex, or that raises issues under the law, that need to be well presented and communicated.

As the means and resources of some are limited, I think it is totally reasonable to publish stuff like that post, as the ones who were involved will know the details, but for the most will not be hung out to dry in public, except where a decision may well be questioned, being one by one senior decision maker, who should feel like being accountable anyway.

I consider there is nothing unreasonable in the post(s) linked to above, and many bits of personal information have been redacted for good reasons. Where persons are mentioned, they appear to be acting as public officials and advisors, so should be accountable anyway.

I wish you luck and success with your legal endeavours, but wonder, why do so many here use pseudonyms, when 'straight shooting' is recommended by you? I am sure we all have our reasons for being careful and mindful.
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#10 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 09:20 PM

View PostMarc, on 09 December 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

I understand your thoughts, your situation and priorities.

But if you had read the other post you will also have noticed, that very few names are mentioned, for privacy reasons, basically only the decision maker, or opinion former, i. e. one of the Ombudsmen was named in documentation and text.

And re taking it to the Human Rights Commissioner, the HRRT or so, a person does usually require some resources, some finance that would help, to get proper legal advice, as otherwise it may not lead to much, when filing a claim. The HRC maybe less formal than the courts, but even they do not want to deal with stuff that may either be overly complex, or that raises issues under the law, that need to be well presented and communicated.

As the means and resources of some are limited, I think it is totally reasonable to publish stuff like that post, as the ones who were involved will know the details, but for the most will not be hung out to dry in public, except where a decision may well be questioned, being one by one senior decision maker, who should feel like being accountable anyway.

I consider there is nothing unreasonable in the post(s) linked to above, and many bits of personal information have been redacted for good reasons. Where persons are mentioned, they appear to be acting as public officials and advisors, so should be accountable anyway.

I wish you luck and success with your legal endeavours, but wonder, why do so many here use pseudonyms, when 'straight shooting' is recommended by you? I am sure we all have our reasons for being careful and mindful.


In real terms how would you expect any of these decision makers would effectively be held to account when they make their decisions concerning the lives of other people. What level of accountability are you thinking of and is that proportional to the damage that they do?
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#11 User is offline   Marc 

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 11:06 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on 09 December 2017 - 09:20 PM, said:

In real terms how would you expect any of these decision makers would effectively be held to account when they make their decisions concerning the lives of other people. What level of accountability are you thinking of and is that proportional to the damage that they do?


Well, when the legal ways appear to be too difficult to pursue, at least through public exposure, so people can see what they are doing, and that they can perhaps not be trusted.

Some may go and apply 'name and shame', others have a more subtle approach, but forums and blogs do have some effective power these days.

Proportionality is another question to ponder about, but I fear, as you know, with damage done, there is often no true compensation available, no matter what.

Re your questions, and my further comments, I presume that is also why ACC Forum exists, and why you are still active commenting and posting here.
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#12 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 07:14 AM

View PostAlan Thomas, on 09 December 2017 - 09:20 PM, said:

In real terms how would you expect any of these decision makers would effectively be held to account when they make their decisions concerning the lives of other people. What level of accountability are you thinking of and is that proportional to the damage that they do?


May be you should look at the legislation and the sections where all ACC staff have to be operating at a level that is not dishonest and corrupt.

ACC have ways in the system that deal with dishonesty unless the dishonesty is increasing the wage of ACC staff.

You might want to check up on reporting of dishonesty with in ACC staff and encourage people to use that as a means to terminate the dishonest staff with in ACC.

An example of a dishonest person would be when a case manager claims that the ACC 6300 form, that is used to collect and release personal information, can be to or not to include the release of information to one of ACC pet assessors depending on the case manager.

A case manager claimed that there is two versions of the forms in a review but could not supply evidence because he was not at the review in person. He will now be dismissed for his dishonesty. That is in a document signed by all ACC staff.
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#13 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 10:42 AM

View PostMarc, on 09 December 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

Well, when the legal ways appear to be too difficult to pursue, at least through public exposure, so people can see what they are doing, and that they can perhaps not be trusted.

Some may go and apply 'name and shame', others have a more subtle approach, but forums and blogs do have some effective power these days.

Proportionality is another question to ponder about, but I fear, as you know, with damage done, there is often no true compensation available, no matter what.

Re your questions, and my further comments, I presume that is also why ACC Forum exists, and why you are still active commenting and posting here.


But Marc you seem to be forgetting that the ACC is a monopoly and monopolies have no need to worry about public image. For the injured and the infirm there is nowhere else to go and the masses that the media serve would rather not pay for those invalid needs anyway. Those who pay for the ACC services, the non-injured, don't concern themselves as to whether or not the ACC is trustworthy.

Marc there are two paradigms, the injured and the noninjured. It is the noninjured that has the power combined with not being affected by the ACCs misbehaviour.

As for the ACC staff and due consideration for any deterrent of their wrongdoing I have raised the issue that there is very little deterrent if any at all. Perhaps even motivation for wrongdoing with that wrongdoing even being disguised by the wrongdoing being divided up amongst numerous ACC staff members without them even recognising what they are doing is wrong so as to not even offend their own moral compass, this combined with various group holidays disguised as conferences and workshops to make them feel good about themselves.

With regards to your last sentence, yes you are quite correct. I would consider myself as a very moral man with a very strong moral compass that carries the heavy burden as a result of what we are observing the sake of my fellow man. This seems to scare the hell out of the ACC resulted in them profiling me and then continuing to look for more than 10 years for someone like Douglas weal to make himself available as a conduit to provide false stories in order to shut me down.

So getting back to the issue the overriding force necessary to control the ACC decisions is the factual scientific integrity of the medical and work capacity assessment and suchlike. In the case of those of us who is injuries are completely obvious supported by irrefutable medical reporting the ACC simply ignore all of that medical information and look for something else or even ignore the whole situation. No one could possibly even begin to argue that a persons whose hand has mechanically detached from his arm can do a two handed job so the ACCs answer to that is to criminalise the claimant. I am not the only one that this has happened to as it is now a routine procedure the ACC adopt to avoid paying. The ACC debt to me is standing now more than $2 million. The ACC means of doing this is by way of false documentation and perjury with the active mechanisms been divided amongst many people to the extent that when questioned under oath even the person who signed the decision letter claims they don't know anything about the information in the letter and cannot remember who actually made the decision that they were instructed to type and sign, such as the magnitude of the corruption.
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#14 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 10:49 AM

View Postdoppelganger, on 10 December 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

May be you should look at the legislation and the sections where all ACC staff have to be operating at a level that is not dishonest and corrupt.

ACC have ways in the system that deal with dishonesty unless the dishonesty is increasing the wage of ACC staff.

You might want to check up on reporting of dishonesty with in ACC staff and encourage people to use that as a means to terminate the dishonest staff with in ACC.

An example of a dishonest person would be when a case manager claims that the ACC 6300 form, that is used to collect and release personal information, can be to or not to include the release of information to one of ACC pet assessors depending on the case manager.

A case manager claimed that there is two versions of the forms in a review but could not supply evidence because he was not at the review in person. He will now be dismissed for his dishonesty. That is in a document signed by all ACC staff.


Doppelgänger I don't think you realise that the ACC code of complaints system has reverted back to the previous public relations office. The follow-up mechanism such as review hearings is now detached from the ACC whereby the dirty deeds are done at a distance with the attempt of severing the connection between the legislation that enforces compliance in accordance with your suggestions to make the ACC immune. With the lessening of effect of complaints ACC are able to report to the public at large that they are pure as the driven snow as that is what the "evidence" is designed to show.

Those claimants who are persistent in the maintenance of the ACC integrity, not just for themselves but for all, end up having their files managed by the remote client unit which under the current policy deprives the right of attendance at review hearings with the result that it cannot be established that the reviewer actually even has the claimant's written submissions or exhibits with review is even issuing review hearing decisions claiming that there was a review hearing when in fact no hearing actually took place at all with the reviewer even making a decision on a perceived issue that has absolutely nothing to do with the claimant's issue at all. With a even reviewers demonstrating a willingness to commit perjury in their own Review hearing and evidenced in their review hearing decisions (perjury) the magnitude of the situation and opportunity for remedy is dire.
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#15 User is offline   MINI 

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 01:47 PM

View PostMarc, on 09 December 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

I understand your thoughts, your situation and priorities.

But if you had read the other post you will also have noticed, that very few names are mentioned, for privacy reasons, basically only the decision maker, or opinion former, i. e. one of the Ombudsmen was named in documentation and text.

And re taking it to the Human Rights Commissioner, the HRRT or so, a person does usually require some resources, some finance that would help, to get proper legal advice, as otherwise it may not lead to much, when filing a claim. The HRC maybe less formal than the courts, but even they do not want to deal with stuff that may either be overly complex, or that raises issues under the law, that need to be well presented and communicated.

As the means and resources of some are limited, I think it is totally reasonable to publish stuff like that post, as the ones who were involved will know the details, but for the most will not be hung out to dry in public, except where a decision may well be questioned, being one by one senior decision maker, who should feel like being accountable anyway.

I consider there is nothing unreasonable in the post(s) linked to above, and many bits of personal information have been redacted for good reasons. Where persons are mentioned, they appear to be acting as public officials and advisors, so should be accountable anyway.

I wish you luck and success with your legal endeavours, but wonder, why do so many here use pseudonyms, when 'straight shooting' is recommended by you? I am sure we all have our reasons for being careful and mindful.


Marc

everyone on here knows who I am, because david Butler made sure that laudafinem received the case with my name on it. Lauda finem then defamed me by writing lies about me and then threatened to harm me as well has put a photograph of my house and address up on display to frighten me some more. And that is precisely what happens with all who take their cases past Review into the court system. Their names will be made public. So you are right it is little point in keeping our user names. I have had mine for so long it is like attached to me, so it is usual that I use it. However, if I were to use one of my own cases as evidence of what I say, I would not delete anything, especially my name as it would be there for all to see anyway.

There is nothing wrong with using the information from any of the decided cases that are made public only it MUST be for the reason of furthering your own case or such. I am just reading Kitchen v ACC hoping I can use it for case law of a case I am doing at the moment. It is not wrong for me to use the name as I am using it for the right purposes and that is to get information I may need. BUT I must not been seen to put that person down in anyway shape or form as that could then be seen as harming their reputation or harassment etc.


I hope this explains my views on this point of information put up here not fit to use in a court of law. It is all hearsay.

Cheers

Mini
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#16 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 04:07 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on 10 December 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

Doppelgänger I don't think you realise that the ACC code of complaints system has reverted back to the previous public relations office. The follow-up mechanism such as review hearings is now detached from the ACC whereby the dirty deeds are done at a distance with the attempt of severing the connection between the legislation that enforces compliance in accordance with your suggestions to make the ACC immune. With the lessening of effect of complaints ACC are able to report to the public at large that they are pure as the driven snow as that is what the "evidence" is designed to show.

Those claimants who are persistent in the maintenance of the ACC integrity, not just for themselves but for all, end up having their files managed by the remote client unit which under the current policy deprives the right of attendance at review hearings with the result that it cannot be established that the reviewer actually even has the claimant's written submissions or exhibits with review is even issuing review hearing decisions claiming that there was a review hearing when in fact no hearing actually took place at all with the reviewer even making a decision on a perceived issue that has absolutely nothing to do with the claimant's issue at all. With a even reviewers demonstrating a willingness to commit perjury in their own Review hearing and evidenced in their review hearing decisions (perjury) the magnitude of the situation and opportunity for remedy is dire.


As I suggested but here is a link to a 2010 posting ACC Code of Conduct use this at every opportunity with your ACC case manager

or if you want a newer version then read this
ACC staff Code of Conduct, ACC staff member acting unethically or serious wrong doing

It is there for every one to use
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#17 User is offline   Marc 

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 10:13 PM

I know everyone here has had her or his own battle with ACC, and with assessors and so forth, some going through the courts, also having faced dirty tactics.

The system is flawed if not rotten, as we know, and the historic sufferers are the 'collateral damage' that such institutions or organisations like ACC, particularly their bosses, can live with. Some may wonder whether they can sleep at night, but it seems, they do not care.

Individual cases are treated as such, some in appalling manner. The same happens at WINZ, as we know. They are only interested in the whole game, that is the overall 'outcomes', and that is to them working according to key performance indicators and so forth, it is an accounting game, costs are to be reduced or kept within limits, and earnings are counted with desire, to keep the ledger balanced.

Now it seems, another attempt will be made to somehow design a better system, catering for all in a fairer way. In the end though, it will be up to the politicians, to pass the necessary laws, and there the new problems will start, as history has shown with past legislative efforts.

Here is a program worth listening to:
http://www.radionz.c...e-extending-acc

As for the rest, I think the fight for justice must be fought in various ways, on many layers or levels, and we may all have our own ways to do so. Some are able to, or at least try, to go through the courts, and I strongly recommend they do, as our so called 'watch-dogs' are often nothing more than a sick joke.

https://nzsocialjust...complaint-case/

So others choose to publish stuff here, on blogs and the likes, trying to reveal and expose some of what goes on, and what is not right.

All should be encouraged, and those that commit themselves to doing this, in varying forms, deserve some respect, even if some may dislike or disapprove of some aspects of what and how the others may do it.

At least try to respect each other, and play fair, as united something may be achieved, but by being divided, nothing much may be achieved, as the ones that should be targeted for their appalling decisions and conduct will only lean back and enjoy the popcorn, watching and reading the infighting that may at times occur.

Keep it up, folks, and do what is right. Good night, best wishes


Marc

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