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Section 59 under 1982 Act ... issues to help personal story from a member AT

#1 User is offline   anonymousey 

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:24 PM

Alan Thomas

Basically as you have provided a list of occupations here to Doppleganger, my question would be how you distinguish your circumstances PRE-INJURY and POST-INJURY with these following sections may be helpful to you & readers...

View PostAlan Thomas, on 15 June 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

Over the year before stopping earning:
Project management
Mechanical engineering
Mechanical design engineering
Tool-making
Welding
Machine shop work
Panel-beating
Control systems engineering
Systems Engineering
Sales Engineering
plus lots of other tasks ....


Alan stated, "They made a s59 decision when they realised their mistake but only after making 5 failed attempts at other decisions but the reviewer over turned s59 early in 1992"


For example of an immediate conflict of information existing within this forum, I have noted that you frequently allege your relevant earnings were ABOVE the maximums permitted.  BUT then the fact is your ERC was actually only a small moderate amount of approx $330 per week.

Was this due to any of the following sections being considered such as your bankruptcy problems before the ACC claiming?
I am endeavouring to look at the process involved with getting to a Section 59 Determination &or any confusion eliminated...


53. Relevant earning

3(c ) The average amount of his earnings as a self-employed person during any of the periods of 2 or 3 or 4 consecutive financial years last ended before the day immediately following the date of the accident, or, if the Corporation, in the exercise of its discretion, so decides, during anyone or more of those financial years which it may select as appropriate for the purpose:


You have now said ACC made five decisions relating to Section 59 issues.  Were you required to provide financial statements for FOUR years before your *hernia* Alan? If not, do you know why?

Then we get to the Section 57 of the 1982 Act, which likely relates to the Employer for the part-time position you were in when you had your alleged hernia Alan ...

Were you able to resolve the conflicting evidence described in the NZLII?  You describe your hernia to be a result of possible negligence. You disregard any health predisposition and there is no mention of any *inducement* or contribution on your part to this alleged injury etc Were all of these factors canvassed within your original claim documents &or subsequent court proceedings?
Are these some of the reasons involved which explain the circumstances why you say ACC needed to make 5 decisions?  If not, were there other Sections involved?

57. First week-
(l) Where as a result of incapacity due to personal injury by accident arising out of and in the course of his employment an employee is unable, during the working week comprising the day of the accident and the 6 days thereafter, to work in paid employment as an employee as much time in the aggregate as he would have so worked if he had not suffered the incapacity, then, without prejudice to any rights he may have under any contract of service or conditions of employment, that employee shall be paid in accordance ...
(5) Before an employer or the Corporation makes any payment to an employee under this section, the employer or the Corporation may require satisfactory evidence of the accident, injury, and incapacity, or any of them, including a certificate by a registered medical practitioner; and where the Corporation is required to meet any claim by an employee for any compensation or payment under this section, it may require the employee to produce such evidence as it considers necessary to determine the amount properly so payable. ...
7(d) Where the accident occurs in the course of his employment and is caused by another person's misconduct, skylarking, or negligence, or by the behaviour or presence of any animal, bird, fish, insect, or reptile, or by any force of nature, and the employee did not directly or indirectly induce or contribute to the happening of the accident by any act not incidental to his employment; or


Then we finally get to Section 59 and your claims about your ACC Claim and ACC Decisionmaking for weekly monetary compensation. I think 5(a) and (b ) regarding the discretion and evidence requirements may be one section you may have overlooked.  I have increased some font sizes of the issues or sentences which I would like to draw attention too FYI


59. Earnings related compensation after first week for temporary loss of earning capacity-
( I) Where, as a result of incapacity due to personal injury by accident, an earner suffers any temporary loss of earning capacity as determined under the provisions of this section during any period after the expiration of the working week comprising the day of the accident and the 6 days thereafter, the Corporation shall pay him earnings related compensation in respect of that loss at the rate of 80 percent of the amount of his loss of earning capacity due to the injury.
(2) For the purposes of this section, an earner's temporary loss of earning capacity due to the injury shall, subject to this section, be determined by deducting from the amount of his relevant earnings for a like period the aggregate of the amount of his earnings as an employee (if any) and the amount of his earnings as a self-employed person (if any) during the period: Provided that if the Corporation considers, having regard to the medical and other evidence available to it, that the earner IS
(a ) Not endeavouring to work or earn in paid employment to the extent of his capacity; or
(b ) Not working or earning in paid employment to the extent to which he would be able to do so if the only factor affecting his ability to work or earn in paid employment were his incapacity for work due to the injury,the Corporation may fix the amount to be so deducted at such figure as it considers appropriate.
(5) Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this section, where it is likely that the commencement of the payment of earnings related compensation under this section for any period will be unduly delayed on account of difficulties or uncertainties which may arise in ascertaining the amount of the relevant earnings of the incapacitated person or his earnings as an employee or as a self-employed person during that period, the Corporation, in its discretion, may do all or any of the following:
(a ) The Corporation may, having regard to the evidence which is presently available, determine a person's loss of earning capacity for any period of his incapacity
at such amount as it considers will provide fair and just compensation without being required to make assessments of relevant earnings and actual earnings: Provided that any such determination shall not bind or prejudice the Corporation or limit or restrict its powers with regard to any determination of that person's loss of earning capacity during any part of the period of his incapacity to which the determination does not relate:
(b ) Where the Corporation has not received sufficient evidence to enable it to determine the relevant earnings or actual earnings of any person for any period it may make an interim determination of the person's relevant earnings or actual earnings, as the case may be, for the period, having regard to other evidence that it has received in respect of that person (whether for that period or any other period) and to all relevant circumstances, and may make payments to the person on account under subsection (1) of this section for such period and at such rate as the Corporation thinks fit: Provided that the rate shall not exceed 50 percent of the earnings related compensation for the time being as ascertained by reference to an interim determination of the person's relevant earnings or actual earnings as aforesaid: Provided also that any payments of earnings related compensation made by the Corporation under this paragraph in excess of the proper entitlement under subsection (1) of this section shall constitute a debt due to the Corporation which may be recovered by the Corporation in accordance with section 114 of this Act. (


So by this stage I see numerous difficulties with many of your allegations and counterclaims Alan. When you rarely link to corresponding sections or provide objective evidence, I believe the confusion and risks of misinterpretation also escalate astronomically IMHO

View PostAlan Thomas, on 16 March 2007 - 01:36 PM, said:

1991 ACC advised that as I am permanently incapacitated with no possibility of returning to my pre injury occupation that should I become directly involved in my business interests and generate earnings they would not bother with the first 25% of my pre injury occupation earnings that would abate thereafter. (presumably under S60 as I was told they would not fund the reconstructive surgery nor provide occupational rehabilitation into a new occupation)


"PRESUMABLY" is likely the point where you have gone wrong or way off track Alan ...
Without any evidence you are just guessing mickeymouse stuff and wasting reader time continually with word and mindgames unfortunately Alan...
For example, this idea of *reconstructive surgery* is not something I would ever expect any Surgeon in the world could guarantee 100% today. Let alone such Guarantees existing 25 years ago etc Likewise you continually allege a surgeon committed Assault but this was examined and dismissed in Court. IMHO it may be more a case of routine evaluation during the operation by the surgeon, or at worse minor medical misadventure &or comparable to routine procedures which would be done by other surgeons and blah blah ....
As for your second factor of *provide occupational rehabilitation into a new occupation* this too is something which you muck about with ad nauseum IMHO. 

ALSO if you still 25 years later refuse to meaningfully discuss or evidence this word, then how on earth do you expect any rehabilitation when you simultaneously were also claiming you were running *businesses* BEFORE injury too...

I have included these next sections in an effort to get you to focus on facts. Can you corroborate your position before and after injury with regards to these sections? Please pay particular attention to the differences between (b ) and (c ) as you may come under (b ) before your injury and then your conduct afterwards is where you came unstuck ie your efforts to push paragraph (c ) to fit your activity ... whilst ignoring implications of correlated sections such as Section 56. Husband or wife employed by or rendering services to spouse.

I do not mean to suggest that your spouse who was directly involved with any or all of the businesses during your ORAC days, did not comply with their duties and obligations regarding their return of income to the Commissioner of Inland Revenue during those years Alan. The point I am making is that all of these factors are being addressed within the legislation.

There is also this Section with specific factors identified in the legislation which may have applied in your case Alan,

2. Interpretation-( 1) In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires,"
2(4) For the purposes of this Act, a director of a company who is entitled to receive any fee, allowance, bonus, gratuity, commission, emolument, or other remuneration of any kind (whether in cash or otherwise) in respect of his services in his capacity as a director (being services rendered in New Zealand, or in circumstances in which he has cover under section 30 of this Act) shall, in relation to those services, be deemed to be an employee of that company; and that company shall, to the extent of those services, be deemed to be the employer of that director.




2. Interpretation "Self-employed person"
(a ) Means a person (other than a person to whom paragraph (c ) of this definition applies) who, otherwise than as an employee and whether alone or together with another person or other persons, carries on a business in New Zealand (whether or not that business is also carried on outside New Zealand); and
(b ) Includes a person (other than a person to whom paragraph (c ) of this definition applies) who, having a vested beneficial share or interest in income arising from a business carried on in New Zealand (whether or not. that business is also carried on outside New Zealand), applies his personal exertions, otherwise than as an employee, in the carrying on of that business in New Zealand, notwithstanding that the business may be carried on by or subject to the control of an administrator or a trustee or any other person acting in a representative or fiduciary capacity, and notwithstanding that he himself may be such an administrator, trustee, or other person; but
(c ) Does not include a person who carries on a business merely as an administrator or trustee or in any other representative or fiduciary capacity, and who does not apply his personal exertions in the carrying on of that business otherwise than in his capacity as administrator or trustee or in any such other representative or fiduciary capacity: Provided that, in relation to the giving of notices under this Act to a self-employed person, references to a self-employed person include the administrator of the self-employed person and the assignee within the meaning of the Insolvency Act 1967 of the estate of the self-employed person; and (d) Has also the extended meaning assigned to it under section 69 of this Act:

Also please pay particular attention to this section too Alan

55. Working shareholders of companies-
( 1) Where a person provides services for a company in which he is a shareholder (whether or not he is also a director of the company), the Corporation may determine
(a ) How much of the amount that he receives from the company represents reasonable remuneration for the services which he renders to the company otherwise than as a director, and shall be deemed to be earnings as an employee for the purposes of this Act:
(b ) If he is a director of the company, how much of the amount that he receives from the company represents reasonable remuneration for his services as a director, and shall be deemed to be directors' fees for the purposes of this Act:
(c ) That the balance of the amount that he receives from the company shall be deemed to be a dividend for the purposes of this Act.

(2) Any determination made by the Corporation under this section shall be binding on the company and person

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#2 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 07:01 PM

anonymousey
As the Reviewer has decided the ACC Section 59 decision was wrong. Without ACC paying for the prescribed surgery, the prescribed surgery taking place and bring successful Section 59 has no relevance to my claim. All was required but not not one item happened.

Your attack has no basis in fact or law.

Instead look at the import of ACC deciding not to fund the prescribed surgery as directed by the reviewed can only mean in law when looking at S59 or s60 as ACC was required the choose between s59 and s60 within 6 months and the other reviewer determined it was not s59.
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#3 User is offline   anonymousey 

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 10:54 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on 22 June 2017 - 07:01 PM, said:

anonymousey
As the Reviewer has decided the ACC Section 59 decision was wrong. Without ACC paying for the prescribed surgery, the prescribed surgery taking place and bring successful Section 59 has no relevance to my claim. All was required but not not one item happened.

Your attack has no basis in fact or law.

Instead look at the import of ACC deciding not to fund the prescribed surgery as directed by the reviewed can only mean in law when looking at S59 or s60 as ACC was required the choose between s59 and s60 within 6 months and the other reviewer determined it was not s59.


None of this makes sense Alan

Section 59 relates to the quantum of earnings AFTER the first week of incapacity

View PostAlan Thomas, on 17 June 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:


They made a s59 decision when they realised their mistake but only after making 5 failed attempts at other decisions but the reviewer over turned s59 early in 1992


What on earth are you talking about in this sentence???

Why are you refusing to upload this alleged 1992 decision??


I cannot even tell if you are imagining that if ACC are unable to get tax records ... then that they can simply IGNORE they have additional 1982 sections and their ability to manage such a situation! I am referring to their determinations of the weekly 80% compensation payments and their liability from any times when or where the injured person is incapable or uncompliant with providing their earning records etc etc

I have underlined for ease,

59(5) Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this section, where it is likely that the commencement of the payment of earnings related compensation under this section for any period will be unduly delayed on account of difficulties or uncertainties which may arise in ascertaining the amount of the relevant earnings of the incapacitated person or his earnings as an employee or as a self-employed person during that period, the Corporation, in its discretion, may do all or any of the following:
(a) The Corporation may, having regard to the evidence which is presently available, determine a person's loss of earning capacity for any period of his incapacity at such amount as it considers will provide fair and just compensation without being required to make assessments of relevant earnings and actual earnings: Provided that any such determination shall not bind or prejudice the Corporation or limit or restrict its powers with regard to any determination of that person's loss of earning capacity during any part of the period of his incapacity to which the determination does not relate:
(b ) Where the Corporation has not received sufficient evidence to enable it to determine the relevant earnings or actual earnings of any person for any period it may make an interim determination of the person's relevant earnings or actual earnings, as the case may be, for the period, having regard to other evidence that it has received in respect of that person (whether for that period or any other period) and to all relevant circumstances, and may make payments to the person on account under subsection (1) of this section for such period and at such rate as the Corporation thinks fit: Provided that the rate shall not exceed 50 percent of the earnings related compensation for the time being as ascertained by reference to an interim determination of the person's relevant earnings or actual earnings as aforesaid: Provided also that any payments of earnings related compensation made by the Corporation under this paragraph in excess of the proper entitlement under subsection (1) of this section shall constitute a debt due to the Corporation which may be recovered by the Corporation in accordance with section 114 of this Act.


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#4 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 11:07 PM

anonymousey
The two 1992 review hearing decisions have been uploaded quite a number of times and I'm not going to upload them any more.

s59 of the 1982 act is about temporary incapacity to earn from the preinjury work activities.
A temporary loss of earnings capacity was in the context of the expectation that someone would heal from their injuries and continue on their normal life.


s60 of the 1982 act is about permanent incapacityTo earn from the pre-injury work activities.
A permanent loss of earnings capacity was in the context of in the event that a person could not pursue their chosen career because of their injuries they were retired and if they chose to utilise the residual capacity to do a different occupation the permanent incapacity decision remains just that, permanent, and that if there was any earnings further down the track in the ACC would be entitled to an abatement of earnings It is as simple as that And I'm surprised you are aggressively attempting to confuse all and sundry about this fundamental principle.

The 1982 act did not have within it the concept of vocational rehabilitation, that was only introduced under the 1992 legislation, but rather tthe ACC could only persuade someone to utilise the residual capacity and that was it. So under section 62 if someone was permanently incapacitated to return to the traditional mode of earnings then they were retired. If that person were to work in any new occupation will then perhaps they would generate earnings and then ACC would be entitled to a discount of the earnings compensation based on the permanent retirement under section 60.

The legislation follows on in a consistent manner but as John orange,, branch manager of ACC, evidenced the ACC has deliberately conspired to deprive people of their unique entitlements under various sections of the legislation in the attempt to manipulate the legislation to the ACCs advantage,, even committing insurance fraud in the process.
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#5 User is offline   anonymousey 

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 11:47 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on 22 June 2017 - 11:07 PM, said:

anonymousey
The two 1992 review hearing decisions have been uploaded quite a number of times and I'm not going to upload them any more.

s59 of the 1982 act is about temporary incapacity to earn from the preinjury work activities.
A temporary loss of earnings capacity was in the context of the expectation that someone would heal from their injuries and continue on their normal life.


s60 of the 1982 act is about permanent incapacityTo earn from the pre-injury work activities.
A permanent loss of earnings capacity was in the context of in the event that a person could not pursue their chosen career because of their injuries they were retired and if they chose to utilise the residual capacity to do a different occupation the permanent incapacity decision remains just that, permanent, and that if there was any earnings further down the track in the ACC would be entitled to an abatement of earnings It is as simple as that And I'm surprised you are aggressively attempting to confuse all and sundry about this fundamental principle.

The 1982 act did not have within it the concept of vocational rehabilitation, that was only introduced under the 1992 legislation, but rather tthe ACC could only persuade someone to utilise the residual capacity and that was it. So under section 62 if someone was permanently incapacitated to return to the traditional mode of earnings then they were retired. If that person were to work in any new occupation will then perhaps they would generate earnings and then ACC would be entitled to a discount of the earnings compensation based on the permanent retirement under section 60.

The legislation follows on in a consistent manner but as John orange,, branch manager of ACC, evidenced the ACC has deliberately conspired to deprive people of their unique entitlements under various sections of the legislation in the attempt to manipulate the legislation to the ACCs advantage,, even committing insurance fraud in the process.



OMG ...definitely will have to come back to this stuff Alan ...
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#6 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 06:28 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on 22 June 2017 - 11:07 PM, said:

anonymousey


The 1982 act did not have within it the concept of vocational rehabilitation, that was only introduced under the 1992 legislation, but rather tthe ACC could only persuade someone to utilise the residual capacity and that was it. So under section 62 if someone was permanently incapacitated to return to the traditional mode of earnings then they were retired. If that person were to work in any new occupation will then perhaps they would generate earnings and then ACC would be entitled to a discount of the earnings compensation based on the permanent retirement under section 60.




the 1982 Legislation is recorded as saying

PART II
PURPOSES AND SCOPE OF ACT
26. Purposes and scope of Act---(1) The purposes of this Act shall be---
(a) To promote safety, including occupational health:
(B)/> To promote the rehabilitation of persons who suffer personal injury by accident:
© To make provision for the compensation of persons who suffer personal injury by accident
and certain dependants of those persons where death results from the injury.
(2) Subject to this section,---
(a) All persons who suffer personal injury by accident in New Zealand; and
(B)/> To the extent specified in sections 30, 31, and 32 of this Act, all persons who suffer
personal injury by accident outside New Zealand,---
shall have cover under this Act if the accident occurred on or after the 1st day of April 1983.

and
PART III
SAFETY AND REHABILITATION
35. Corporation to promote general safety---
(1) It shall be a matter of prime importance for the Corporation to take an active and co-ordinating
role in the promotion of safety in all the different areas where accidents can occur in New Zealand.
(2) In so promoting safety the Corporation shall be concerned to---
(a) Avoid human suffering; and
(B)/> Prevent wastage of manpower and so assist efficiency and productivity.
(3) The Corporation shall establish close and harmonious working relationships with industry,
commerce, Government departments, local authorities, and other bodies and organisations in
promoting safety and preventing personal injury by accident, and for this purpose shall develop a
safety programme, and may appoint a committee under section 16 of this Act.
(4) The functions of the Corporation in relation to the promotion of safety shall include---
(a) Stimulating and maintaining interest in safety and the prevention of personal injury by
accident:
(B)/> Publishing and disseminating safety literature and information:
© Sponsoring, assisting, and conducting safety campaigns, exhibitions, and courses:
(d) Sponsoring, supporting, and fostering organisations and groups concerned with safety and the
prevention of personal injury by accident:
(e) Researching into causes, incidence, costs, and methods of prevention of personal injury by
accident:
(f) Determining the requirements in respect of, and providing or arranging for provision to be
made for, the adequate recording of statistical information concerning personal injury by accident:
(g) Seeking continuously for new ways to reduce the number and severity of accidents and
personal injuries in all fields.
(5) The Corporation (in consultation with the Standards Council or any other appropriate
authority) may consider and, if it thinks fit, support or recommend legislation, regulations, bylaws,
and codes of practice calculated to promote safety and to prevent personal injury by accident.
(6) The Corporation may consider the extent to which safety may be promoted and personal injury
by accident prevented, by fiscal and other measures in relation to training in safety, the cost of
safety equipment, and similar matters, and may make such recommendations as it considers
desirable through the Minister to the appropriate authorities on such matters.
(7) The Corporation may make recommendations as to alterations of statutory responsibilities and
reallocation of functions, as between Government departments, local authorities, and other bodies,
in relation to the promotion of safety and the prevention of personal injury by accident. Any such
recommendations may be made---
(a) To the Government departments, local authorities, and other bodies concerned; or
(B)/> Through the Minister to the appropriate authorities.
Cf. 1972, No. 43, ss. 43, 44; 1973, No. 113, s. 14

36. Corporation to promote rehabilitation---
(1) The Corporation shall place great stress upon rehabilitation and shall take all practicable steps to
promote a well co-ordinated and vigorous programme for the medical and vocational rehabilitation
of persons who have cover and who become incapacitated as a result of personal injury by accident
and are for the time being in New Zealand.
(2) The rehabilitation programme in relation to those persons shall have as its objectives---
(a) Their restoration as speedily as possible to the fullest physical, mental, and social fitness of
which they are capable, having regard to their incapacity; and
(B)/> Where applicable, their restoration to the fullest vocational and economic usefulness of which
they are capable; and
© Where applicable, their reinstatement or placement in employment.
(3) Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, where an earner suffers personal injury by
accident outside New Zealand and has cover in respect of the injury, the Corporation, after having
regard to all the circumstances, may, in its discretion, make provision for the rehabilitation outside
New Zealand of that person to such extent and on such terms and conditions as it thinks fit.
Cf. 1972, No. 43, s. 48

37. Functions of Corporation in relation to promotion of rehabilitation---
(1) In the discharge of its functions in relation to rehabilitation the Corporation shall---
(a) Establish close and harmonious working relationships with Government departments, Hospital
Boards, and other bodies and organisations concerned with the rehabilitation of incapacitated
persons, and with the professions of medicine and dentistry and occupations auxiliary to those
professions:
(B)/> Co-operate with and use the services provided by Government departments, Hospital Boards,
and other bodies, organisations, and professions to the maximum extent possible:
© Promote and help to organise the provision by them of all services necessary for the discharge
of the Corporation's functions:
(d) Co-operate with all of them, and support, stimulate, and foster their interest and activities in
rehabilitation:
(e) Stimulate, support, and foster the establishment of additional facilities where it considers that
they are needed:
(f) Sponsor, support, or foster any organisation or group concerned with rehabilitation:
(g) Consider the extent to which rehabilitation may be promoted by fiscal and other measures in
relation to rehabilitation training, re-employment, the cost of training equipment, and similar
matters and make such recommendations as it considers desirable through the Minister to the
appropriate authorities on such matters.
(2) For the purpose of promoting rehabilitation under section 36 of this Act or for exercising all or
any of its functions under subsection (1) of this section, the Corporation may, if it thinks fit, appoint
a committee under section 16 of this Act.
(3) Without limiting any of its other functions, the Corporation shall, in relation to the
rehabilitation of persons who are for the time being in New Zealand, have the functions of---
(a) Ensuring the re-establishment in their previous employment where possible of incapacitated
earners:
(B)/> Ensuring the training or retraining of incapacitated earners who cannot be so reinstated, so that
they may secure other employment suited to their maximum capacity:
© Assisting, where it considers appropriate, the development of the skills and talents of persons
(other than earners) who suffer personal injury by accident so that they may secure employment
suited to their maximum capacity:
(d) For the purposes of the foregoing provisions of this section,---
(i) Seeking the making of special arrangements for incapacitated persons to whom any of
those provisions apply, whether individually or generally, concerning examinations, the completion
of apprenticeships, or the obtaining of training or of practical experience necessary or desirable for
the purpose of qualifying for entrance into any employment or occupation:
(ii) Ensuring the granting, where it considers this justified, of financial assistance to
incapacitated persons to whom any of those provisions apply during any period of desirable training
or education in cases where no earnings related compensation is payable, or where (having regard
to the circumstances of the persons) the cost of the training or education is beyond the financial
resources of the persons:
(iii) Ensuring the granting, where it considers this justified, of financial assistance towards
the expenses of incapacitated persons to whom any of those provisions apply in cases where the
persons are required to reside away from their ordinary places of residence for a period or periods
while undertaking any such training or education:
(iv) Stimulating, supporting, and fostering any additional educational, training, or other
facilities which it considers necessary for the adequate development of its rehabilitation service:
(e) Adapting or assisting with the adaptation of the home or residence of any incapacitated person
who has cover in respect of the personal injury which caused his incapacity where, in the opinion of
the Corporation, the adaptation or assistance will assist the rehabilitation of an incapacitated person:
Provided that any such adaptation shall be made in consultation and co-operation with the
body responsible for the institution where he is maintained:
(f) Ensuring the provision (where needed) of a wheelchair or other aid for daily living for any
person incapacitated through personal injury by accident:
(g) Adapting or assisting with the adaptation or purchasing or assisting with the purchase of a
motor vehicle where, in the opinion of the Corporation, the adaptation or purchase will assist the
rehabilitation of an incapacitated person, or will improve his earning capacity:
(h) Providing for the dissemination of information for the purposes of advice and education in
connection with rehabilitation.
(4) The Corporation shall---
(a) Evaluate the availability and effectiveness of services for the rehabilitation of persons who
have become incapacitated through personal injury by accident:
(B)/> Inquire into instances where the treatment for the purposes of the rehabilitation of any such
person appears to have been less than fully effective, and recommend to the appropriate authority
corrective action when indicated.
(5) The Corporation may---
(a) Conduct studies and issue reports on the rehabilitative aspects of the progress of persons who
have such cover:
(B)/> Conduct research into or arrange for research to be conducted into aspects of rehabilitation.
Cf. 1972, No. 43, ss. 49, 50; 1973, No. 113, s. 16; 1975, No. 136,
s. 5

Your statement does not reflect the Act but the reflection of the staff that worked at the Accident Compensation Corporation. Ypur statement makes Mr Qrange correct in denying entitlements.
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#7 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 07:27 PM

Yes the legislation that you have posted is exactly correct, ACC did not have any actual duty or legal liability to pay for rehabilitation as the legislation only dealt with suggestions and persuasions not criteria. In my discussions with Bill Birch who was the Minister of ACC at the time he was describing to me how the ACC staff members were like a bunch of wildcats of which was impossible to herd hence you cannot herd cats.. He described to me how is going to be necessary to change the legislation which would bring in qualified case management whereby the case managers were required to receive proper training in order to serve in such positions of responsibility. He was also requiring the ACC to produce regulations to describe by way of criteria when a person was fit to work back in their preinjury occupation and or work in a new occupation after a period of retraining as the ACC was going to be required to administer funds to actually achieve meaningful qualification, experience and skill a new occupation is while having regard for a person's disability. ACC received this legislation seeking to benefit from themselves by making their own decisions on their own favour but forgot to implement actual regulations to describe criteria.. This did not happen until November 1997 at which time Bill Birch was then in the process of privatising the disobedient ACC.. Unless you are in at the thick end of all of this saga and are aware of the nature of change between the two legislations you should not be posting on this thread.
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#8 User is offline   anonymousey 

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 07:29 PM

Thank you Dopple :)

I did write a reply but lost it sorry ... but it was basically saying that I find it nigh on impossible to discuss some issues when faced with particular statements from Alan :wacko:

For example, Alan states,

"The 1982 act did not have within it the concept of vocational rehabilitation.."


The 1982 Legislation specifically states

36. Corporation to promote rehabilitation---
(1) The Corporation shall place great stress upon rehabilitation and shall take all practicable steps to promote a well co-ordinated and vigorous programme for the medical and vocational rehabilitation of persons who have cover and who become incapacitated as a result of personal injury by accident and are for the time being in New Zealand.

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#9 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 07:37 PM

View Postanonymousey, on 23 June 2017 - 07:29 PM, said:

Thank you Dopple

I did write a reply but lost it sorry ... but it was basically saying that I find it nigh on impossible to discuss some issues when faced with particular statements from Alan

For example, Alan states,

"The 1982 act did not have within it the concept of vocational rehabilitation.."


The 1982 Legislation specifically states

36. Corporation to promote rehabilitation---
(1) The Corporation shall place great stress upon rehabilitation and shall take all practicable steps to promote a well co-ordinated and vigorous programme for the medical and vocational rehabilitation of persons who have cover and who become incapacitated as a result of personal injury by accident and are for the time being in New Zealand.



The context of section 36 whereby the Corporation was to promote rehabilitation was by way of encouragement only. There was no legislation in place whereby the ACC were to directly instructed to case manage vocational rehabilitation and more importantly to be required in an absolute sense to fund education, work experience and skill levels in order to achieve a meaningful earnings capacity at the level of the pre-injury ccapacity to earn. It was not until the introduction of the 1992 legislation that case management, vocational rehabilitation by way of section 51 oof the 1992 legislation tthat created vocational rehabilitation as a section of the act as replacement to section 60 Of the 1992 act which was essentially the legislation describing vocational retirement.. We must not forget that under the 1992 legislation claimants have absolutely no obligation whatsoever to enter into any new occupation and only had an absolute duty to accept medical rehabilitation for the purposes of returning to the preinjury work tasks.

If the government of the day did not see a problem with the ACCs obedience to the intent of the 1982 act it would never have brought in the 1992 legislation.. It was this wilful disobedience on behalf of the ACC that necessitated the government Imposing its wishes On the ACC regarding these matters.
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#10 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 04:33 PM

View PostAlan Thomas, on 23 June 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

The context of section 36 whereby the Corporation was to promote rehabilitation was by way of encouragement only. There was no legislation in place whereby the ACC were to directly instructed to case manage vocational rehabilitation and more importantly to be required in an absolute sense to fund education, work experience and skill levels in order to achieve a meaningful earnings capacity at the level of the pre-injury ccapacity to earn. It was not until the introduction of the 1992 legislation that case management, vocational rehabilitation by way of section 51 oof the 1992 legislation tthat created vocational rehabilitation as a section of the act as replacement to section 60 Of the 1992 act which was essentially the legislation describing vocational retirement.. We must not forget that under the 1992 legislation claimants have absolutely no obligation whatsoever to enter into any new occupation and only had an absolute duty to accept medical rehabilitation for the purposes of returning to the preinjury work tasks.

If the government of the day did not see a problem with the ACCs obedience to the intent of the 1982 act it would never have brought in the 1992 legislation.. It was this wilful disobedience on behalf of the ACC that necessitated the government Imposing its wishes On the ACC regarding these matters.


You again Alan do not read the legislation in ful.

Where applicable, their restoration to the fullest vocational and economic usefulness of which
they are capable; and Where applicable, their reinstatement or placement in employment.

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#11 User is offline   Alan Thomas 

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 05:18 PM

View Postdoppelganger, on 24 June 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

You again Alan do not read the legislation in ful.

Where applicable, their restoration to the fullest vocational and economic usefulness of which
they are capable; and Where applicable, their reinstatement or placement in employment.



Yes I have read the whole section of legislation and you have to take into account the whole portion of legislation together with the whole portion of facts in order to apply the legislation properly. The words that you have not read is "where applicable. This means the following is "not applicable" when the criteria of "where applicable" is not met. For example when a person has had an injury for which they are waiting for surgery it is not applicable to be considering a return to work until after the surgery and a suitable period of recovery. However if you read the rest of the section of legislation you have quoted it has the meaning that fullest vocational economic usefulness applies to the person having the medical treatment and it does not necessarily apply to getting a new job as many seem to infer as that would be contrary to other portions of the section of legislation.
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#12 User is offline   doppelganger 

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 07:34 PM

You along with ACC claim that there was no more Vocational Rehabilitation that ACc could complete.

This is because of the requirement of section 60.

60. Assessment of permanent incapacity---(1) Where an earner who
suffers personal injury by accident does not completely recover from his
incapacity due to the accident, as soon as the Corporation considers
that (so far as the consequences of the injury are concerned) his
medical condition is stabilised and all practicable steps have been
taken towards his retraining and rehabilitation,
the Corporation shall
review his case and make an assessment in writing of---

you keep advising everyone you have had the assessment and then advising everyone that your condition has not stablised.

May be it is you that hasn't read the legislation.
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