ACCforum: BILL ENGLISH TAKES LESSONS FROM 'WORK WILL SET YOU FREE' PROPAGANDISTS - ACCforum

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

BILL ENGLISH TAKES LESSONS FROM 'WORK WILL SET YOU FREE' PROPAGANDISTS Long term benefit dependence is supposedly just like cocaine addiction

#1 User is offline   Marc 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 208
  • Joined: 08-November 12

Posted 19 September 2014 - 03:42 AM

It was hard to believe what I read in the New Zealand Herald yesterday. According to Deputy Prime Minister Bill English long term benefit dependence is similar to "crack cocaine addiction":

"Bill English's cocaine reference slammed", NZ Herald, video, 18.09.14:
http://www.nzherald....llery_id=145532

"Bill English's cocaine reference slammed", Bay of Plenty Times, article, 18.09.14:
http://www.nzherald....jectid=11326924

Quote:
“Deputy Prime Minister Bill English has compared some long-term beneficiaries to crack addicts, sparking criticism.

Mr English made the comment while speaking to about 100 voters at a meeting at Club Mount Maunganui yesterday in his final push to Tauranga voters ahead of Saturday's election.

"Getting stuck on a benefit (long-term) is like crack cocaine, it's really hard once you've started to come off it ..."

He delved into the economy and outlined his party's economic plans.

He was joined by Tauranga MP Simon Bridges and Bay of Plenty National candidate Todd Muller.

National's economic plan was about growing the economy steadily, creating 150,000 more jobs by 2018, delivering higher incomes, helping more businesses to succeed and addressing long-term welfare dependency, which was costing the country billions, he said.

Once people entered the benefit system, particularly those aged under 20, they often stayed on it for years, and there were concerning numbers who had been on a benefit for up to 20 years, Mr English said.

"Getting stuck on a benefit (long-term) is like crack cocaine, it's really hard once you've started to come off it...

"We know hooking adults back into the education system and getting them off benefits into work in seven years rather than 20 saves the country millions," he said.

Mr English said one of the main reasons the country's economy was consuming billions of dollars was in the number of people on benefit long term, including many receiving sickness benefit.

Welfare statistics showed there were 300,000 people on benefit, costing $76 billion over a lifetime, and about $50 billion worth was driven by those who started on a benefit under the age of 20.

Mr English said National was getting 1600 people off welfare and back into work each week, which was "pretty good start" and the Ministry of Social Development's case-management approach with long-term clients was paying dividends.

Research also showed many beneficiaries had solvable problems such as depression that once addressed would enable them to return to paid work.

Mr English said voters had a stark choice - vote for National and "steady as she goes" and sensible fiscal spending or vote for the "others" and watch the ship start to list and sink.

The country was in good shape and it was not time to make dramatic changes, he said.

Te Tuinga Whanau Support Services executive director Tommy Wilson said Mr English's reference to crack cocaine showed a lack of understanding.

"You have to be there to understand it's not an addiction. Most people don't have a choice."



The story was also covered by some other media:

“Bill English describes beneficiaries as drug addicts”, Yahoo News NZ:
https://nz.news.yaho...s-drug-addicts/


“Bill English describes beneficiaries as drug addicts”, ZB news, 18 Sept. 2014:
http://www.newstalkz...as-drug-addicts


“Beneficiary bashing unacceptable – BAFNZ”, Voxy, 18.09.14:
http://www.voxy.co.n...-bafnz/5/202598


The talk about welfare dependency being just like "drug dependence" is nothing new to the well informed, who know all about Dr David Bratt, MSD's Principal Health Advisor, who has repeatedly made the bizarre comparison in his many "presentations" to health professionals (especially GPs) and in comments to media. Here is one of his "presentations":

"Ready, Steady, Crook"
http://www.gpcme.co....ratt-Hawker.pdf
(see pages 13, 20, 21 and 35)


Bratt is one of the most faithful followers of the ideologically influenced "findings" and "research" by Professor Mansel Aylward, who has been condemned by many disabled and advocacy groups in the UK. His long term involvement with the UNUM health and disability insurance company has also been controversial:

http://blacktriangle...a-very-tangled/
http://blacktriangle...wraf-rtd-14912/

http://www.theguardi...7/epluribusunum

Aylward had input into the formation of the recent welfare reforms in New Zealand, and met Paula Bennett to advise her. He also met with a "health and disability panel" that took part in formulating and drafting up the welfare reforms that are now written in law. Aylward wrote reports that suggested many people suffering mental health conditions - and from musculo-skeletal conditions - were rather suffering from "illness belief" than true sickness. He claims that most sick, injured and disabled are able to work in jobs on the open market, to compete with fit and healthy for jobs, and should be "supported" into work, as work is "therapeutic" and has "health benefits". His claims have been disputed by many, but as he seems to deliver the "science" and "research" findings that governments and insurers wanting to cut costs simply love, he is now held up as a supposed "expert" with credibility.

The following posts shine light on what is really behind the whole policy drives:

http://accforum.org/...ind-the-agenda/

http://accforum.org/...-and-acc-compo/

http://accforum.org/...so-used-by-acc/


Even the AFOEM of the RACP has taken up Aylward's advice and recommendations, which should not surprise, as the President of the AFOEM is Dr David Beaumont, a former ATOS staff member, and also controversial assessor or advisor used by ACC:

http://www.racp.org....enefits-of-work
http://www.racp.org....mansel-aylward/

After the fatal shooting of two WINZ staff members in Ashburton we read articles like the following in the NZ Herald - same as in other media:

http://www.nzherald....jectid=11318067

http://www.nzherald....jectid=11319849

That story is yet to unfold further, and be prepared that at least some of the truth about how WINZ now work with "clients" will come out once the matter is heard before the court at some time in the not so distant future.

Bill English should know better, but him resorting to the bizarre kinds of claims that other "experts" have used before, this shows us that things are going to get a hell of a lot worse, for those dependent on benefits for health and disability reasons. Fasten your seat belts, as the journey will not be a pleasant one. If National win the election, we will have another chilling 3 year term of them running the welfare system in New Zealand further into the ground.

0

#2 User is offline   jaffa 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1792
  • Joined: 14-August 11
  • LocationWellington City

Posted 19 September 2014 - 04:16 AM

My list didn't format. Sorry.
0

#3 User is offline   Marc 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 208
  • Joined: 08-November 12

Posted 19 September 2014 - 12:27 PM

This morning there was an interesting brief report by Radio New Zealand's Political Editor Brent Edwards on Nine to Noon. He revealed how statistical figures used in this election campaign were often far from the truth. That applies to the governing National Party, same as to other parties. But it was very interesting to hear what the actual figures were, of those leaving benefit receipt on balance per week (while considering the inflow of new benefit claimants as well, besides of those supposedly leaving benefit receipt). And the movements off benefits are only possible due to employment being a bit more available in various regions. The figures thrown around also tell us little about how long people stay in jobs, and what they actually earn.

The actual NET figure for people leaving the benefit is much, much smaller than what we get told in election brochures and in bold claims from Paula Bennett, various candidates and the Prime Minister.

I strongly recommend people listen to the audio recording before they go and cast their votes!

Here is the link to the track on Radio New Zealand's website:

"Brent Edwards discussed Fact or Fiction throughout the campaign", Radio New Zealand, 19 Sept. 2014:
http://www.radionz.c...ut-the-campaign

0

#4 User is offline   Brucey 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 9353
  • Joined: 26-January 07
  • LocationEarth

Posted 19 September 2014 - 09:17 PM

It might be time to consider what to do with the video recordings that I made of my recent dealings with WINZ Ashburton branch? http://accforum.org/..._fromsearch__1.

I interacted with all three victims of the shooting, and have to say all were very good to me and good at their jobs, but the woman who run my seminar was not.

As yet I have not shown them to anyone, problem is who to give them to, the Police maybe?
0

#5 User is offline   Marc 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 208
  • Joined: 08-November 12

Posted 20 September 2014 - 02:01 AM

View Postangryman, on 19 September 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

It might be time to consider what to do with the video recordings that I made of my recent dealings with WINZ Ashburton branch? http://accforum.org/..._fromsearch__1.

I interacted with all three victims of the shooting, and have to say all were very good to me and good at their jobs, but the woman who run my seminar was not.

As yet I have not shown them to anyone, problem is who to give them to, the Police maybe?



I am intrigued, "angryman", I am intrigued. Perhaps you should find out who the lawyer is for the accused, if that is possible. Perhaps you can offer your contact details somewhere, for the legal aid or whatever kind of lawyer of John Tully to contact you, to discuss your own experiences with that seminar at WINZ, which seems to be the same branch where the horrible incident happened. Give this some consideration. I tell you though, I expect that the court case that will come, will reveal some nasty stuff, which WINZ, MSD and Paula Bennett rather want nothing to be known of to anyone, and do not want to be made accessible to the public.

I hope the accused man has a good lawyer, as he will need one, and that the lawyer will expose what treatment he really got. I would NOT involve the Police, surely NOT, as they are going to use any evidence to support the prosecution, and will not treat your evidence fairly, I fear.

Like in earlier comments, I say, I do not condone or apologise what the shooter did, and violence is not acceptable, not even threats, but we must also be open and receptive to the witness statements of people that have been adversely affected by WINZ. It is criminal to simply ignore or suppress evidence of draconian, potentially unfair, unreasonable, and thus harmful treatment that some at WINZ may in some situations dish out to clients.

The truth must come out, for God's sake, it must be exposed, and let us hope it will.

0

#6 User is offline   Brucey 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 9353
  • Joined: 26-January 07
  • LocationEarth

Posted 20 September 2014 - 09:29 AM

View PostMarc, on 20 September 2014 - 02:01 AM, said:

I am intrigued, "angryman", I am intrigued. Perhaps you should find out who the lawyer is for the accused, if that is possible. Perhaps you can offer your contact details somewhere, for the legal aid or whatever kind of lawyer of John Tully to contact you, to discuss your own experiences with that seminar at WINZ, which seems to be the same branch where the horrible incident happened. Give this some consideration. I tell you though, I expect that the court case that will come, will reveal some nasty stuff, which WINZ, MSD and Paula Bennett rather want nothing to be known of to anyone, and do not want to be made accessible to the public.

I hope the accused man has a good lawyer, as he will need one, and that the lawyer will expose what treatment he really got. I would NOT involve the Police, surely NOT, as they are going to use any evidence to support the prosecution, and will not treat your evidence fairly, I fear.

Like in earlier comments, I say, I do not condone or apologise what the shooter did, and violence is not acceptable, not even threats, but we must also be open and receptive to the witness statements of people that have been adversely affected by WINZ. It is criminal to simply ignore or suppress evidence of draconian, potentially unfair, unreasonable, and thus harmful treatment that some at WINZ may in some situations dish out to clients.

The truth must come out, for God's sake, it must be exposed, and let us hope it will.




I am not sure if the video footage I have has any relevance to Mr Tully's case, that's not for me to judge.
However it does go to show the behaviour of some staff to be wanting, it shows a disrespect for client privacy, and it particularly shows up an horrific induction process, run by a complete cow of a woman.

I have no desire to become involved personally.

I think I will sit on the footage for now, and see what pans out. In hindsight the Police would not be the best people to give this stuff to. If there is going to be some sort of investigation into the goings on in Ashburton then perhaps my footage should be put submitted to the person or persons charged with the investigation.

As I have said the three woman victims were in my opinion very good at their jobs, I think the issues with the branch are related more to management issues and WINZ policy, rather than individual performance.
0

#7 User is offline   Marc 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 208
  • Joined: 08-November 12

Posted 20 September 2014 - 08:06 PM

View Postangryman, on 20 September 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

I am not sure if the video footage I have has any relevance to Mr Tully's case, that's not for me to judge.
However it does go to show the behaviour of some staff to be wanting, it shows a disrespect for client privacy, and it particularly shows up an horrific induction process, run by a complete cow of a woman.

I have no desire to become involved personally.

I think I will sit on the footage for now, and see what pans out. In hindsight the Police would not be the best people to give this stuff to. If there is going to be some sort of investigation into the goings on in Ashburton then perhaps my footage should be put submitted to the person or persons charged with the investigation.

As I have said the three woman victims were in my opinion very good at their jobs, I think the issues with the branch are related more to management issues and WINZ policy, rather than individual performance.



Hallo angryman -

Yes, it would not be wise to pass any of your info to the police, they will either do nothing with it, or somehow try to use it to back up their case. It would be better pass it to the lawyer of the accused, to perhaps build a case and present some evidence to the court, about what some WINZ staff do, which can push people to the extreme. I note though that you seem to have had a positive impression of the three actual victims in the Ashburton case, and only negative experience with another staff member.

If you ever consider going public re WINZ, or entrust a good journalist with the recording, you could perhaps establish contact with Simon Collins from APN and the NZ Herald, he is a valued, respected and integer man, and likes to write stories about WINZ issues, as he is a reporter focusing on social issues. He can be fully trusted, as I have met him myself a couple of years ago. Also is there a good and well experience journalist by the name of David Fisher, who works for the same paper, who deals with justice and crime issues, so he would possibly also be interested in such info as you have. David Fisher is an award winning journalist, and belongs to the better ones in the profession.

In any case, these are their email addresses, and one's phone number:
[email protected], phone nr 09 373 6473;
[email protected]

You may perhaps also consider more local media in your region, for instance the Christchurch Press. I have no info re journalists I can comment on that are working for them, but perhaps do some investigations.

This is of course only useful, if you want to bring out some truths, which may involve making your identity known, but that must be discussed with media.

0

#8 User is offline   Marc 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 208
  • Joined: 08-November 12

Posted 20 September 2014 - 08:19 PM

View Postsycotoad, on 20 September 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

Is the the "tell them anything just to get in" Bill Engrish your bitching on about?


As the Finance Minister Bill English is a very strong force behind the drive to save costs in welfare and behind the welfare reforms we have been faced with. He is a stronger power than Paula Bennett, as Bennett is just the mouthpiece and willing mercenary they use to do the hands on work in her portfolio. English does to many come across as a moderate conservative politician, but his rant about "crack cocaine addicted" beneficiaries shows his ugly face. I have no doubt he got that "information" to make his comment from such "experts" as Aylward from the UK, whom they consulted re the reforms, and Dr Bratt, the Principal Health Advisor, who is a very strong supporter and follower of the Aylward line in dealing with sick, injured and disabled on benefits.

English himself is not a medical expert and not a scientist, so he would not know anything much at all about what he claimed in that speech in Mt Maunganui. But that makes him and the ideology they drum into people the more dangerous.

What shocks me most is that only some media picked this up, and that there was none on TV and radio about this, and nobody challenged him and asked for scientific proof or whatever. Most media are useless, and they should be ashamed for not properly investigating stuff and challenging such senior politicians telling people such bullshit.

0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users